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[lojbab (Bob LeChevalier)]

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Date: Sat, 27 Jul 91 07:08 EDT
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Date: Sat, 27 Jul 91 07:08 EDT
From: lojbab (Bob LeChevalier)
To: lojban_list
Subject: response to Mark Shoulson, go'i lado new lists

1. go'i refers to the relationship expressed by the MAIN bridi of the last
sentence (jufra).  But since a 'sentence' may be incomplete, having no
selbri, there could be some definition whatifs, and I prefer the definition
'last MAIN bridi'.  In "mi klama le zarci", that is "klama".
What "go'i refers to in a "gi'e" sentence, an "ije" sentence etc. is less
obvious, and usage will probably decide.
   "le go'i" is a correct way to pick up and repeat the last sumti of the
first sumti of the previous main bridi,and in Nick's example, is roughly the same as "le tcena".  It
is a stylistic question as to whether to use "le go'i" or "le tcena".
2. You are correct and Nick is wring on "lami" and "lado".  You cannot
insert anything between "la" or "doi" and the name that it flags (and except
for "doi" or another COI, nothing between COI and its name, PROVIDED THAT 
these are labelling morphological names.  THis, as Mark suggests, is a 
morphological limitation, and is the only distinction between LE and LA
grammatically, since LE cannot take a morpho. name at all.  You can say
la .olimpus. po mi.  With descriptions, though, it can be "le patfu po mi"
or "lemi patfu", and "la patfu po mi" or "la mi patfu".  I will seldom combine
"la + mi" in one word because it is rare to have la + description, but this
is also a matter of choice (and I may actually end up doing otherwise when I
use it, because of the "lemi" analogy). "la mi patfu", though translates as
"the one named 'My Father'" to me right now, because I make this writing

3. There has as yet been no work on the gismu lists to speak of since the
version was created last September that I think is posted on PLS.  It remains
low priority.  Cowan has created place structures for the newly made gismu
and I have a few miscellaneous comments people have given me on gismu that
I almost certainly won't be able to find when I do get to work on the list
(which is why I ask people to save up such comments until I ask, as well as
if they are doing any systematic look at place structures.  For individual questions that
come up in actual usage, like jegvo, feel free to post, but it still doesn't hurt to keep your own list.
Remember that the Sept. gismu list is in no way official, and is not recommended
for actual use since you cannot count on any reader having it or knowing its
place structures.  We are debating here the idea with going to this list as
na improvement over the currently published 'public domain list' on the
assumption that things are going too slow on the revision to the list, but I
hate to print up hundreds of copies of a list that will cost people $5 or more
that we are sure will be obsolete in a few months.  Probably though, with the
issuance of the new LogFlash, we will have to.  Comments on this are welcome,
indeed let me ask this in a separate message, so it isn;t lost in a longer message.
"le jegvo" to me means "the Judeo-Christian thingy", and I would need context
to know which one,because of the 'le'.  In the absence of context, the most
obvious default is the most obvious Judeo-Christian thingy that might be
referred to, which is usually the deity.  "la jegvon." is what I use for the
deity in usage.  Remember that "le" is a kind of anaphoric agreement between
speaker and listener - the speaker says " the thing I describe as 'x'" but the
speaker is obligated to be understandable by the listener, so that context
should be enough that the listener can identify what is being described.  If
not, a relative clause is called for.

lojbab