Re: Aorist

[John Cowan <cbmvax!UUNET.UU.NET!snark.thyrsus.com!cowan>]

[I have moved this post from conlang to Lojban List.]

la .and. rostas. cusku di'e:

> >its Skt name), was traditionally used for "past tense at which I was not
> >present", as opposed to past tense observed by the narrator (and, by
> >extension, it was also used for cases in which the narrator felt he wasn't
> >there owing to mental disorientation, as drunkenness.  The example my book
> >had was "I babbled like an idiot before the king".  Even though the speaker
> >was present, this form might be used stylistically).

> This is very interesting. Is this presence/absence feature isolated, or
> is it part of a larger system of evidential modality? If the verb with
> the presence/absence feature occurs within a subordinate clause (e.g. _Sophy
> knew that Arthur wept_), does this mean that the speaker was present/absent
> with respect to Arthur's weeping, or could it mean that Sophy was
> present/absent? Can lojban show the difference? Do its evidentials &
> other modal particles have an argument for perceiver, believer,
> obligator, etc., that defaults to 'speaker' but can be specified as
> someone else (Sophy in the above example)?

The Lojban evidentials are outside the grammar (can be inserted anywhere)
and always refer to the speaker.

        la sofis. djuno le nu za'a la .artr. klaku
        Sophy knows the event-of [I observe it!] Arthur weeps

means that the weeping was observed.  If the "za'a" appeared at the beginning,
the sentence would assert that the speaker observed Sophy's knowing -- whatever
that might mean.

To say what Sophy observed, it is necessary to use the Lojban metalinguistic
indicator "sei".  This marks a subordinate claim that comments on the main
claim, in the same way that the evidentials do, but with greater semantic
generality:

        la sofis. djuno le nu la .artr. klaku sei ra zabna
        Sophy knows the event-of Arthur weeps (the former observes it)

This may be used quite generally:

        la .and. rostas. sei la lojbab. .e mi na krici cu merko
        And Rosta (Lojbab and I don't believe it!) is an American.

I would use this sentence if reporting someone else's opinion.

--
cowan@snark.thyrsus.com         ...!uunet!cbmvax!snark!cowan
                e'osai ko sarji la lojban