Re: Wallops #5 (partial)

[CJ FINE <cbmvax!uunet!BRADFORD.AC.UK!cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu!C.J.Fine>]

Comment on part of Nick's translation (I haven't got to the end yet!)
>
> mi na certu le se zajbrnatleta .iku'i mi co'a jimpe lenu mi poi xelso cu
> no'e snada tu'a le la olimpik. nunjvi pevi la tokios. isa'unai mi nu'o zmadu
> zo'epeca'aku leni snada

"ku'i"? where's the contrast? I don't think the English "but" means "in
contrast" her (and many other places, at all: it is more concessive:
"even though I am not an expert")
I would say "mi noi xelso", but there is room for dispute. I would also
quantify that particular "mi"  (as it has a different referent from the
previous "mi"s in the line), but I'm not sure how. "mipezu"? "mi'a"?
I didn't understand "zo'epeca'aku" until I read the gloss. "le ca'a
zasti"?

 .iti'e le mulno nizyji'a cu te zmadu mi le
> gugdrkore'a kuce'o le gugdrnafganistana kuce'o le gugdrkenia kuce'o le
> gugdrtrinidada kuce'o le xanto denci xaskoi gugde .iku'i mi zmadu .u'a le
> gugdrlixtenctaine .i lenu go'i cu pluka nuzba .i zmadu pluka fau le nu'o nu
> le gugdrlixtenctaine cu se nunjvi la olimpik

The whole paragraph (in fact most of the article) needs a load more
attitudinals (which is not to belittle your choices when you have used
them). In particular, the irony needs to be expressed explicitly in
Lojban - how about "je'unai[.o'onai]"? - maybe at the beginning with a "fu'e"?
The last sentence didn't give me the sense of the counterfactual:
neither "faulenu" nor "nu'o" managed that for me: I read it as "even
more pleasing given that L could have but didn't", which didn't make a
lot of sense.

>
> .ipamai le brife cu to'e mapti mi .i ca ronu lomi prenu cu bajryjvi fi le
 mitre
> beli panono gi'onai pi'ejvi fi le nunclapi'e gi'onai re'ojvi fi tu'a le
 kilga'a
> kei ru snada lenu le brife cu to'e mapti .i le fange noroi go'i li'a .iza'a
> le fange kuce le brife cu mabla ke tugni jasysnu .ije ri roroi sarji ra .isu'a
> le brife cu jarco tai roda lenu ckaji lo stodi ka xelxei

The second sentence needs some location (either temporal or at Tokyo) -
I read it as a universal "every time our people run etc". Also you
haven't got the anticipative of the English - how about "pupu'o"?

"gi'onai" etc. I've often been unhappy about the spurious precision of
people using ".onai" rather than ".a", and this time I'm sure of it. (I
remember a remark - possibly pc in an old The Loglanist - doubting
whether it was true that natural language "or" is usually exclusive). If
you draw up the truth-table for "x1 .onai x2 .onai x3" you will find
it's true precisely when an odd number of the x's are true, and false
when (for example) just two of them are true!. (Further, it is identical
with "x1 .o x2 .o x3"!) I would certainly choose "gi'a" here, but if you
want something more precise, I fear you are stuck with "palu'alu'e x1 ce
x2 ce x3" (if I've got the right cmavo.)

".ije ri roroi sarji ra" - does "sarji" have this meaning of "support"
or a physical meaning? I don't think it can have both.

>
> .ivomai selxlupai xrani .i mi na djuno le jaitai snada be lenu go'i .iku'i le
. . .
"jaitai" - splendid! first time I've seen "jai" in use.
"ku'i" - see above.

> .ixamai su'a mi tordu kresku
kefysku. kresku is "hair express"!

.i tu'a mi se fuzme lenu le bajrystu cu cilmo .e
> lenu le bajrystu na cilmo .e lenu brife .e lenu na brife .e lenu carvi .e lenu
> solgu'i .e lenu dilnu .e lenu puzi citka le dukse kei .e lenu puzi citka noda
> kei .e lenu puze'u na cpacu lo xatra kei .e lenu na puzi jinga fo tu'a le
> jmaboi nunjvi cundinkei .iji'a mi se xlali nu'i lenu jivna pu le dedmidju kei
> ki'u lenu pu'i camcikna nu'u.e lenu jivna ba le dedmidju kei ki'u lenu ca
> djarunta .isu'a mi se xlali lonu jivna .i lei puzi se cusku cu so'omei lei
> velci'i poi caza se cusku .iku'i mi va'o lenu xamgu to jo'u xlali toi djica cu
> ka'e facki lo drata

"ki'u lenu pu'i camcikna" - I think there's a negative missing here.
"no'e camcikna"?
All the ".e" are good here - so is "nu'i".
"lei puzi se cusku cu so'omei lei velci'i poi caza se cusku" - the
repetition is inelegant, and doesn't translate the English. How about
"se tirne" for the last?
"iku'i" again.
"va'o lenu xamgu djica" - in circumstances of choosing well - I don't
understand that to be "good will". "leka xamgu djica" would be better,
but still not satisfactory.

Football: I suggest "boltikpa" x1 plays football against x2. Then a
football match is either "nu boltikpa" or "nu boltikpajvi". A football
is strictly "boltipyboi", but normally "tipyboi" will do. Of course you
can boltikpa ca'i la sokr .a lo merko .a la rygbis or other kinds I
don't know the words for offhand like Australian, Irish, not to mention
Rugby Union or Rugby League. Other games, anyone?

>
> .imu'ubo zemai nu darlu tu'a le tutrkipro .i leimi zajbrnatleta ca le
> cabna tcini cu.ei so'iroi carmi jundi .iti'e pu lenu co'a clapi'ejvi fa
> loi drapre .eji'a lo brito kei le zajyctu cu to'ecla ve notci fi le kerlo
> be lemi prenu lu ko no'e carmi tu'a le brito li'u .iseki'ubo ge le brito
> cu pamoi gi lemi prenu cu remumoi;

"nu darlu"? I should rate it as at least "nu damba". "darlu" is a frank
and free exchange of views - but without the connotation that phrase now
has in English!
"tu'a le brito" - I read that as "don't be to excessively British-like",
and didn't understand.

> .ibimai nu mi rolzda snada loi drata .i.eiro'apa'e mi na djica lenu snada
> roda .i mi jinga le la nobel. cnemu .i lemi prenu cu jinga lenu se cmene
> lu munje ke fetnalspe mebrai li'u .i.e'a lo fange cu jinga su'oda
> .isomai nu seltru le gugdrturki,e vau.ua .ilenu go'i cu punai se cusku
> su'oda .ije mi gleki lenu mi pamoi le'i cusku be ra .i lenu seltru le
> gugdrturki,e cu fuzme je'u lo so'amei .ija'ebo .e'e fuzme le se lifri be mi
> beivi la tokios .ijonaili'a la tokios. fuzme le se lifri be mi beica lenu
> seltru le gugdrturki,e;

"le la nobel. cnemu .i lemi prenu" - I would prefer to quantify both
these sumti.
"gugdrturki,e" - but it wasn't a gugde that ruled, and it wasn't Turkey.
I would use either "jectrxosmanli" (the Ottoman state) or "natmyturki,e"

>
> .i mi pensi le bajryjvi befi la maraton. beira'i le gugdrnetiopia be'o noi
> claxu leka jikca xaujdi kei ja'e lenu jinga re la olimpik. lamji nunjvi
> cnemu gi'ega'i se jamfu le lunbe caku .ije'u mi na zanru lenu lo se
> zajbrnatleta cu gubgau lei cfila be le cecmu jditai be levo'a jecta .i
> mi fau lenu loi se gugdrnetiopia cu claxu lo cutci cu.e'u se vencu ri gi'e
> dunda ri ra .ifaubo lo se gugdrnetiopia banai bajryjvi fi la maraton.

"lamji nunjvi cnemu" - didn't suggest "consecutive to me" - "simla'i" or
"porla'i"
"gubgau" - to me this is "publically acts" - I think you ast least want
a "kaz" in there - I would suggest "kazgubga'i" (quality of public
alter)

                        Must go - more to follow.

                                Kolin
                                        c.j.fine@bradford.ac.uk