states/provinces/counties

["Mark E. Shoulson" <cbmvax!uunet!cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu!shoulson>]

>Date:         Fri, 7 Feb 1992 10:48:30 GMT
>From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iad%COGSCI.ED.AC.UK@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>

>la lojbab. cusku di'e
>>  Thus Nova Scotia would Lojbanize as "la novaskocias." and the US, if not
>>  "la mergu'e", as "la .iuNAItedsteits."
>Or {la .iu.es.}, which is also readily understood.

But which is an illegal cmene.  You can't have pauses in mid-cmene unless
they occur after consonants.  Wouldn't something based on the Lojban names
for the letters (.ubu sy.) be better?  Trouble is, that's not valid either.
Maybe something along the lines of {la .ubusys.} or some such?  Why use
English pronunciations for the letters?

>>  Lojban would not preserve "York" as "york", because the diphthong "yo" has
>>  no defined pronunciation.
>So we end up with {la .iork.} and {la niu.iork.}.

{.iork.} yes, {*niu.iork.} no, for the same reason.  Maybe {niu,iork},
running them into one word.  Also note that around these parts, the
pronunciation {nu} is about as common as {niu}, if not more so.

>You have my emphatic vote against translating names or parts of names.
>That NY is called Nueva York in Spanish means that a Spanish speaker
>will recognise {la cnino.iork} (or whatever) as NY.  But it won't mean
>anything to a Russian or Bulgarian lojbani, unless he knows English
>and is aware that "new" means `{cnino}'.  He will expect {la niu.iork.}

I think I agree here.  Would anyone here agree if I said that Jesus was
born in the House of Bread (or Breadhouse or some such city-sounding name?)
Didn't think so.  But that's what Bethlehem means, place of bread.  And how
much are you going to translate?  "York", going far enough back, comes from
"place of boars", I am informed.  Nobody would want to refer to N.Y. as
"new boarplace" or something.

>There are other problems, of course.  Many places have more than one
>"native" name.  Would you make a cmene for Belgium from her French or
>her Flemish name?  (Just an example.)

Hee.  I can see Lojban writers having fun, writing with two names, one
meaning "Belgium-viewed-as-a-French-speaking-country" and one meaning
"Belgium-viewed-as-a-Flemish-speaking-country".  Make political leaflets a
whole lot of fun...

~mark (shoulson@ctr.columbia.edu)

P.S.  eep, forgot that some people's mailers are bad.  I just sent out a
letter picking nits at Dave Cortesi signed just "co'omi'e mi".  That was
me, in case the mailer ate the header.