states/provinces/counties

["Mark E. Shoulson" <cbmvax!uunet!CTR.COLUMBIA.EDU!cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu!shoulson>]

>Date:         Fri, 7 Feb 1992 19:50:13 GMT
>From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iad%COGSCI.ED.AC.UK@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>

>>  From: "Mark E. Shoulson" <shoulson@EDU.COLUMBIA.CTR>
>>  >From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iad%COGSCI.ED.AC.UK@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu>
>>
>>  Wouldn't something based on the Lojban names
>>  for the letters (.ubu sy.) be better?
>No, because Lojban letter names are for Lojban letters.  The name "US"
>(commonly used to denote a certain country in the major language of
>her population) consists of two English letters.

I'm not so sure.  Many other languages speak out abbreviations using their
own names for the letters.  In many, but not all cases, the abbreviations
are abbreviations of translations, though (e.g. USSR, S.Sh.A. used in SU
for US I understand, etc.)  Then again, {.iu,es.} is certainly recognizable
by the natives.

>>  >You have my emphatic vote against translating names or parts of names.
>>
>>  I think I agree here.

>Good, now that you agreed with me, I'm going to argue against myself.
>I just told everyone that in Bulgarian the "new" in NY is left as it
>is.  But we say (lit.) `coast of elephant bone' for Cote d'Ivoire.
>In Russian this latter is called {kot. divuar.}, but even there the
>names of the Central and the South African Republics are translated.
>What will happen to the Cape of Good Hope?  To the North and South
>Pole (what do their local populations call them?  :-))  To the Sea of
>Tranquility and the rest of the Moon's surface?  We will have to
>translate a certain number of names.  So where is the boundary?

Bleah.  It's a tough question.  I had thought that maybe a good dividing
line would be to translate only those parts of a name which are perfectly
understandable in local dialect.  This is actually not as nuts as it
sounds, it would work moderately well on many English and American names,
but, alas, it's pretty flawed.  It's fine for New/Nova/Nueva York, but I
for one live in West Orange, and doubt I'd want to see that translated.
Ditto Roseland, Maplewood, Summit, or other neighboring towns.  Or in
Israel, it'd do fine on Jerusalem, which has many etymologies but no
obvious meaning, but would fall apart for Breadhouse, Springhill, Godhouse,
Hope-opening, Zion's First, etc. (Bethlehem, Tel Aviv, Bethel,
Petah-tiqvah, Rishon-leTzion).

And we here say "New Delhi", "The Dead Sea", etc, etc.  Belgium isn't the
only place with two native names; what about lakes/rivers/oceans that form
borders between two countries with different languages?  Those certainly
are local to both (or all).  And as you say, what of the moon?  I fear the
only way I see is the informal, patchwork, inconsistent manner of naming
found in current NLs.  Open to new ideas, tho.

~mark