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CAFE: Summary
_A Summary of the Present State of The Ckafybarja Project_
I have collected all the postings concerning the Project and the
first submitted Lojban stories. The total volume of the postings
(excluding the mail headers) has already exceeded 200kb. Probably
very few of us have read through all this material and are fully
aware of the situation. Also quite many new people have started
following the list during the last few weeks and almost certainly
have only a very vague notion about what's going on.
I have prepared a condensed version of 'The Ckafybarja Papers'
which I'll post separately. This version (about 40kb) contains
edited postings pertaining to the background and the English
descriptions of the Cafe.
This posting tries to summarize the present stage of the project.
I'll not go into details as they are available in the Papers.
***************
Note: this is NOT an official document of the LLG. The views
presented are my personal views.
***************
The Purpose of The Ckafybarja Project
The purpose of the project is to encourage people to create
original Lojban stories which have the following common
features:
- as already stated the stories are ORIGINAL Lojban
stories, not translations from other languages
- they are closely connected with a coffeehouse which
is described in detail in a set of English documentation
available to all
- the stories either take place or are told in the Cafe
The proposed Cafe Newsletter would widen the scope of material
eligible for publication and make it easier for the beginning
Lojban writers to produce something worthwhile.
History
The project has gone through several stages during the last two
months. There were some preliminary postings concerning the
lack of Lojban text -- especially original text, not
translations from other languages. It was also noted that
actually very few people did produce Lojban text or use Lojban
in communicating with other Lojbanists. The ideas culminating
in the project were formulated during the summer LogFests and
the ensuing discussions on the net.
_The Lojban Canterbury Tales_
The first LogFest formulated the idea of encouraging people
to write original Lojban stories with some common features.
The basic idea was that there would be a place were people
would gather to tell stories to each other like in the
original Canterbury Tales or in The Decameron. The Finnish
national epic Kalevala was also mentioned as a possible
source of ideas and there were some off-line discussions
concerning the possibilities. The parts of these
conversations which affected the development of the Project
are included in the Papers. The discussions were at a very
general level and nothing concrete was done at this stage.
The name 'Kalevala' was used in the headers of most of the
postings which gave rise to the first name of the project
proper.
_The Lojban Kalevala Project_ ==> _The Ckafybarja Project_
At the second LogFest the Cafe idea was adopted and also the
idea of having a detailed description of the locale and the
personnel. This description would be in English in order to
be readily accessible to everybody. It would serve two main
purposes:
1) the stories by various writers would obviously describe
the same Cafe
2) the less creative writers would be able to concentrate
on the plot instead of also having to invent the settings
Three different settings were described but the description
#2 was the favourite already before the plan was posted and
there was actually no further discussion on the net.
There were differences of opinion concerning various aspects
of the description. Most of these have been resolved but some
are in limbo and some are waiting comment from the
non-netters.
The 'Kalevala' was quite soon dropped from the name of the
project as there was no actual reason for the reference. I
proposed the name 'la jbotur' instead but it was never
adopted by anybody else. The name of the Cafe has been 'la
jbolaz' for a while but this has turned out to be
ungrammatical.
Controversies
When the Cafe Project proposal (The Lojban Kalevala Project)
was posted on the net there was some disagreement concerning
various aspects of the plan. The main reason for this was the
fact that none of the most active netters had participated in
the initial formulation. Some of the ideas presented on the net
contradicted the original plan so some non-netters felt that
the very active netters were trying to dominate. The views of
the netters (or of the most vocal of them) were presented to
the non-netters but there has been no response yet. The
conversation on the net has quieted down.
The most controversial question was the characterization of the
Cafe personnel -- especially the proposed national
heterogeneity. The main views presented are included in the
Condensed Papers and I am not going to reiterate them here. As
far as I can see this question is still open -- in all the
others at least some kind of a consensus was achieved.
Basic Settings
A more detailed description of the settings is included in the
Condensed Papers.
The Cafe
A small cafe in rural surroundings (not visible from the
inside). Predominantly Lojbanic clientele gathers there to
tell stories. Some netters have already arrived. Nick advises
to avoid interaction for the time being (c.f. Cond. Pap.)
The Personnel
Multinational personnel, Chinese manager and 5 others
representing the source languages of Lojban. Detailed
characterization isn't available yet so avoid adding details
in the stories. All the views presented on the net concerning
the characterization ought to be studied most carefully by
all potential writers. We need well thought out
characterizations which take into account the views presented
by Ivan and others concerning the difficulty of realistically
portraying national characteristics and the need to have
recognizably non-American characters as desired by lojbab and
some non-netters. Mark pointed out that the characters must
be such that also the later writers can live with them. They
are basically background characters but many writers may want
to use them in their stories. Others may choose to ignore
them in which case the characterizations don't really matter
very much.
Accumulated Material
English Descriptions
There isn't very much new descriptive material as the project
hasn't actually started yet -- in spite of the posting of the
first preparatory Lojban texts. Nick Nicholas has added
detail to the original Description #2 of the locale and David
Bowen has described a Cafe manager. These descriptions are
contained in the Condensed Papers.
Lojban Text
Altogether 5 Lojban stories have been posted -- a proper
story by Mark Shoulson, a longish 'rant' by Nick Nicholas, 2
short 'etudes' by Veijo Vilva and a short story by Iain
Alexander. Only the story by Mark contains storytelling along
the lines indicated in the plan, the others are more
preparatory.
These stories have resulted in a very active conversation on
the net concerning various linguistic aspects -- both
grammatical and semantico-pragmatical. One very challenging
task for the future is the collection, editing and
publication of the accumulating theoretical material so that
the results of these conversations can be utilized by the
whole Lojban community.
The Newsletter Proposal
Nick Nicholas posted a proposal concerning a Cafe Newsletter
which would publish all kinds of Lojban text connected with the
Cafe. The proposal is included in the Condensed Papers.
Widening the Scope
The newsletter would actually widen the scope of the Lojban
texts compared to the original plan. The original plan called
for stories about the Cafe or stories told at the Cafe -- the
Newsletter would accept all kinds of original Lojban text
connected with the Cafe, e.g. small studies like my 'etudes'
would be eligible for publication. This would be the first
purely Lojban journal -- all the theoretical material with
English explanations and glosses would be published in the JL
as would selected Lojban writings not connected with the
Cafe.
The main purpose of the Newsletter would be to encourage and
help beginning writers. The second raison d'etre would be to
show that we have advanced so far that Lojban can be used
without English glosses. Perhaps the most advanced stories
wouldn't be accessible to everybody but there would probably
be a much greater number of easy and intermediate articles. I
also think that having the stories without English glosses
would be advantageous as the structure of Lojban --
especially 'Lojbanic' Lojban -- is so different that
providing an English version may actually hinder
understanding or at least slow down the learning.
__To would-be writers__
1. start writing NOW
2. don't set goals that are too ambitious. Remember that
the published stories DO NOT set a standard which you
ought to match. Your first stories can be very short
and use simple sentences. Here is my first attempt:
le la vei,on ckafybarja srinuntroci xipa xici
ni'o sriku'a
.i ckafybarja
.i mi zvati le vorstu gi'e terpanci loi ckafi da.uicai
.i mi ca ze'upunai.oi sumne da
.i mi dzukla le jbustu gi'e ctacarna
.i rancindu jubme
.i seldandu lo vrici to'erninda'i noi mi na djuno zo'e ke'a
.i selzvati ji'ipano zutse remna
.i srotanxe loi ckafi lei mudri
.i vrici
.i mi visyfacki fi pa lo poi loi remna na zutlamji ke'a ku'o
jubme goi ko'a
.i mi co'a zutlamji ko'a
.i ko'a lamji le nunjupca'u
.i le jukpa cu selviska gi'e jupfinti de.a'ucu'i
.i mi pensi.a'e loi selpinxe co ckafi.au
.i ckafypanci fi mi.ui
.i ckafypanci
.i .ui.o'u
.i sriku'a
3. start with simple things, do experiments with the language.
Try to avoid formulating the ideas in English -- otherwise
you may have difficulties with astonishingly simple
expressions.
4. You may find to your surprise that it is often actually
easier to express something in Lojban because you don't have
to cope with the relatively free structure of English. Just
drop the words to the proper slots and the unambiguous
grammar of Lojban takes care of the rest.
5. don't force yourself to invent a story -- it doesn't work.
The story either comes or not. Pick up something and start
writing about it -- but do it now.
6. the story isn't very important at this stage. It may be
quite banal or even non-existent -- if you find a Lojbanic
way of expressing something, write it down.
7. there is no stylistic tradition, you are completely free
-- within the dictates of the grammar, of course. If you
end up expressing your thoughts in a way which doesn't
resemble anything you ever read, it's quite alright.
8. don't be afraid of simple sentences. Lojban IS different.
Writing a complex sentence which doesn't fall apart doesn't
prove you know Lojban well -- it is just a trivial exercise.
Don't write a sentence which you can't readily understand
yourself -- even next week. You ought to be able to
understand your sentences without parsing/analyzing/
translating -- at least the structure even if you don't
remember all the words you had to pick from the word lists.
9. it doesn't matter if you can't find a natural English way of
expressing the idea of a sentence. Lojban IS different.
A tanru, a lujvo, a sumti with attachments, a {ko} at a
unaccustomed position may all be very difficult to express
naturally in English. Just accept it. Utilize it.
10. start writing
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Veijo Vilva vilva@viikki21.helsinki.fi