Re: Some how do you say it's

[Nick Nicholas <nsn@MULLIAN.EE.MU.OZ.AU>]

To Logical Language Group respond I thus:

#Not to say that I favor or disafavor it as a solution, why does kabryselmre
#require a measuring agent place.  If it isn't interesting leave it out - it
#is a lujvo, after all.

I learn more about lujvo --- and my attitude towards them --- every day. I
have indeed favoured the throw-the-place out attitude, but I'm rather more
hesitant to apply it to tertanru in the veljvo. The reasoning is that a
kabyselmre is a selmre is a se merli, and a se merli must have a merli. The
attitude I've taken is that, if you have to delete a tertanru place, and it's
not because it overlaps with a seltanru place (Lean Lujvo), then I'm using
the wrong tertanru.

Thus in brulu'i, I have le lumci cu brulu'i le se lumci --- I leave out the
te lumci, because we know it to be a broom, and if we need to name it
explicitly, we can just say le lumci cu lumci le se lumci le burcu.

Come to think of it though, this distinction between omitting tertanru places
when they're overlapped by the seltanru, and leaving them in when they aren't,
is a bit artificial, isn't it. Hm. I think Lojbab may be right after all.
Any ideas?

This comes up all the time, btw: the regularity in place structures gives you
a slightly different concept to what you originally intended, but usually
I wear it. Thus for an agentive 'change', I want x1 changes x2 into x3; but
my algorithmic gafygau gives me x1 does x2, which changes x3 into x4. I'm
prepared to wear that. Of course, the places need reordering, but that can
be done with 'jai': jai galfi has the place structure: agent x1 changes x2
into x3 by doing x-fai.

Hm. Thanks for pulling me up on this one, Lojbab. I've got some more thinking
to do...

*******************************************************************************
 A freshman once observed to me:         Nick Nicholas am I, of Melbourne, Oz.
 On the edge of the Rubicon,             nsn@munagin.ee.mu.oz.au (IRC: nicxjo)
 men don't go fishing.                   CogSci and CompSci & wannabe Linguist.
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