Re: Not an atom of meaning in it (was: replies, etc.) 17 Feb 95 10:49:53 EST.) <199502171549.AA07565@access2.digex.net>

[ucleaar <ucleaar@ucl.ac.uk>]

John:
> > I assume that Lojban is supposed to translate in pred calc and that that
> > is one of its guiding ideas. You can translate {pa} simply as "1", while
> > in contrast, {Q-kau} translates in a much more complex way.
> Well, actually it's not so simple.  The translation of "pa" as a quantifier
> is something like "Ex Ay F(y) => x=y", which is hardly atomic. When you
> need "pa" as a number, "li pa", it's even worse, and you have to drag in
> one of various set theories which explain what a number is:  "lo'i pamei"
> with Cantor (and Jim Carter), or something else for von Neumann set theory.
> Ugly.

Perhaps you're asking too much of these translations. After all, we
don't expect pred logic to define "gerku": the meaning of {gerku}
for this sort of translation is an unanalysed predicate gerku().
"pa" as in "li pa" can be treated as an individual, a
constant, for the purposes of this translation. As for "pa" as quantifier,
we could translate all the cardinal numbers in {PA da poi broda} as:
  Ex set(x), cardinality(x,n) Ay member(y,x) -> broda(y)

---
And