Re: lojban dialectology

[Chris Bogart <cbogart@QUETZAL.COM>]

And:
>We ought to keep track of the various good ideas, [...]
>we can then
>evolve a dialect incorporating all these improvements. Or in fact we
>could start already, trying out these dialectal variants in usage.
>
>"Better lojban be better than it be finished" - let that be a motto.
>Or "Lojban finished is Lojban finished".

A counterproposal:

I am interested in tinkering with the language, but I also really like the
idea of a baseline, imperfect though it will be, and a community of speakers
that agree to learn the baseline and try to stick with it.  It is/will be a
fun experiment.  But it's kind of incompatible with the tinkering we
conlangers like to do.  The baseline is stifling some creative urges, and
the creative urges are constantly pushing back the baseline.

Let's create a new language NOT called Lojban (Ninjbo?), that IS allowed to
evolve quite freely, with no looming threat of baseline to choke it off.
We'd start it off Dec 11 1996 defined as identical to Lojban, and let it
change in about the same manner as Lojban changes, but with something other
than LLG (e.g. a vote, or something) as the final arbiter of what gets changed.

The purpose would be:

  - A way of discussing problems and recording reform
        proposals generated by the main project
  - Something for Lojbanists to talk about in Lojban
  - A way to channel Lojbanists' tinkering urges
  - Keeps non-crucial issues out of Lojbab's hair
  - New people can learn a standard language without having to
        guess at lots of dialects -- they start with the standard
        and can mess with different dialects and high level
        discussions when they're ready
  - To allow more significant reforms than the current looming-baseline-threat
        allows for

This is NOT a proposal for a schism.  Maybe we could have an informal rule
that encourages people to post some text in standard lojban proportional to
the amount of tinkering with ninjbo so we don't end up siphoning people off
the main project.  Eventually it would be nice if the discussion itself all took
place in stardard lojban (not in ninjbo!)

Eventually ninjbo might become really stable and interesting and amazing,
and maybe people will want to jump ship and leave Lojban behind.  But if
that doesn't happen we won't have killed Lojban with perfectionism.

>Only with disdain shall guhek be used by me.

If we split our efforts like this, would you be satisfied with hacking
guheks out of ninjbo, and accepting the imperfections of Lojban?
                     ____
 Chris Bogart        \  /  http://www.quetzal.com
 Boulder, CO          \/   cbogart@quetzal.com

"Life is strange.  Some people get rich, others eat shit and die.  Maybe a
fat man will feel his heart burst and call it beautiful."
        - Hunter S Thompson