*short intemperate response to Lojbab on {kea}

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

>From: ucleaar <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
>Subject:      short intemperate response to Lojbab on {kea}
>> We have nei/no'a/la'edei for what I think you are trying for.
>
>I doubt it.  I'd have thought {dei} refers to the current utterance,
>while {nei} refers to current bridi and {noa} to next outer bridi.  None
>of these will cover the function of {kea}.

>> >I also propose, following a suggestion by you, that kea be usable within
>> >to...toi as a reference to, by default, the outermost bridi of the
>> >sentence containing to...toi:
>> >  Sophy, as I'm sure you know, is married.
>> >  la sofi n to kea zou mi birti kuau do djuno kea toi cu ca speni
>> >  Sophy is, I fervently believe, unsurpassedly beautiful
>> >  la sofi n cu to mi carmi krici kea toi traji leka kea melbi
>> I won't pretend to understand this.
>
>{kea} in prenex of the main bridi within to..toi refers to a bridi the
>parenthesis is within.

Be specific, and tell me for the above example what you think ke'a
stands for.  I really have no idea.  Then tell me what you think dei,
nei, and no'a would stand for in the same position.  (I believe that dei
refers either to the parenthetical text or the whole bridi text with the
parenthetical (sedu'u), that nei would refer to the bridi in the
parenthetical (du'u), and that no'a refers to the bridi in which the
parenthetical is embedded (du'u), which appears to be "zo'e traji zo'e"
in the latter example.  Your translation makes it appear that no'a would
be correct.

I make no ruling on what it might mean in the deviant first example,
since I do not accept kuau and have no idea what effect it would/should
have on prosumti references.  Also, since ke'a is not a bound variable,
I have no idea why you put it in the prenex - like ri/ra/ru and zo'e
it's definition changes in different places.

>I suppose that {noa} within the main/outermost bridi of the
>parenthesis would refer to the bridi the parenthesis occurs in.
>But note that in
>  {koa blanu to ko,i krici kuau koo morsi kuau noa}
>{noa} would be the morsi bridi, and in
>  {koa blanu to ko,i krici kuau le noa xunre}
>{le noa} refers to {ko,i}, not to {koa}. In contrast, in

no'a can be subscripted for multiple levels of nesting, no'axiro =
go'ixino would get you the outermost one.

>  {koa blanu to kea goi koe zou ko,i krici kuau koo morsi koe/kea}
>{koe/kea} refers to the blanu bridi.

Same problem as above with the scope of ke'a, which cannot be bound by a
prenex.  Coupled with this is that you have put ko'a/ke'a in the x2
place of morsi, and used your variant cmavo, and I have NO idea what you
are trying for.

lojbab