Re: na`e

[John Cowan <cowan@locke.ccil.org>]

bob@MEGALITH.RATTLESNAKE.COM wrote:

>   3.  The cat sits otherwise than on the chair.
>       lo mlatu ca'o na'e vreta lo stizu

No, that would be:

4)	lo mlatu ca'o vreta na'ebo lo stizu

(i.e. the cat is in a sitting-relationship
with something other than a chair).
I'm neglecting the lo/le issue here.  A better
English translation of your Lojban would be
"The cat other-than-sits on the chair."
 
> The latter utterance contains *two* propositions:
> 
>      a. That it is false that the cat sits on the chair; and,

The dispute is about whether (a) is in fact
always true given (3).

>      b. that some other proposition is true.
> 
>     to ra'unai lo mlatu ca'a vreta lo cuktykajna toi
>     (Incidentally, the cat actually reposes on a
>     book-type-of-counter/shelf.)

No, won't do.  If "vreta" is scalar-negated as in (3),
then it is "vreta" that must be replaced to make the
statement true.  This replacement would be suitable
for a true statement underlying (4).

> Chapter 10:
>     Unlike contradictory negation, scalar negation asserts a truth:
>     that the bridi is true with some tense other than that specified.

This quotation belongs to scalar negation *of tense*; it isn't
relevant to selbri scalar negation.

> Chapter 15:
>     But what exactly does na'e negate?  Does the negation include only
>     the gismu klama, which is the entire selbri in this case, or does
>     it include the le zarci as well?  In Lojban, the answer is
>     unambiguously ``only the gismu''.  The cmavo na'e always applies
>     only to what follows it.

This quotation is correct and applicable, but contradicts your
example:  the "na'e" in (3) applies only to the relation "sits-on".

-- 
John Cowan	http://www.ccil.org/~cowan		cowan@ccil.org
			e'osai ko sarji la lojban