a second Lojban-List

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

First of all, to unsubscribe to Lojban List, please try to do it yourself.
Send
unsub lojban
to
listserv@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu

While an announcements-only list might be nice, I should note that such
a list would probably not have had more than 1 message posted in the last year
by LLG - that is, the book announcement itself.  We simply do not have that
much stuff to announce.  (I guess we could also have announced LogFest,
but few people come to LogFest who would not be reading the more active list).

Thread summaries would add a little to the traffic, IF anyone ever wrote
them.  But the fact is that no one ever gets around to writing such summaries.
If they did, there probably would have been more issues of Ju'i Lobypli put
out in the last 4 years.  As it has been, only Cowan and I have ever gotten
around to writing anything summary-like, which is the sort of thing that would
be good for JL as well as for a low traffic list, and Cowan and I don't have
time to write those summaries.  Hence no JLs and no material for a low-traffic
list.

The na'e discussion is the first discussion in 2 years that has resulted in
a volume over 5 or 6 messages, and hence is the first "thread" that would
warrant a summary in that time period.  I welcome anyone who volunteers
to write such a summary (it won't be me, since I haven't even had time
to read all the messages myself).

Now coupled with this very low traffic, Lojban List is not trivial to maintain.
We have averaged 3 or 4 times a week when someone has been subscribed toi
Lojban List along with every other list in the world.  I have to manually
detect these (usually they are obvious).  In addition, whenever someone
fails to unsubscribe when their address changes, or temporarily loses their
access to the net, I get to deal with the bounce messages. We have 133 people
at the moment subscribed to Lojban List.  I would guess that 1/3 of that
number or more will generate at least one bounce message sometime in the
next year (and usually, I get over a dozen bounce messages before I take
action, since I don't want to drop people who are temporarily unconnected
at the moment a message comes through).

And then there are the people like the poster that started this thread, who
apparently ignored the notice they received when they signed up and did not
retain the instructions for signing off themselves.  (I'm not good about this
myself, so this is a half-hearted condemnation at best %^).

In short, a list that will only generate one or a handful of messages a year
would be a pain to run, in return for the service it provided.

In the meantime, the existence of a second list would mean that some people
who want the active Lojban List would end up on the inactive list by mistake,
think that nothing is happening, and lose interest before they realized
that this impression is incorrect.  I don't want this to happen, so a second
list IS a risk to the health of the first list unless someone is regaularly
generating traffic for it.

Finally, I have to say that, for a large portion of the list subscribers
who might prefer an announcement only list:  I am not sure it would do any
good for you or us.  Would you really read an annoucnement or summary when
it came out?

I will use the recent book announcement as an example.  Out of 133 subscribers
to Lojban List, I got around 3 dozen responses to a specific request to
respond EITHER positively or negatively with an indication of your plans
regarding purchase of the book.  I'm hoping that there are more of you
who haven't gotten around to responding, but I do not know how to get your
attention - the announcement and the specific request came out on this list
when there was no other traffic.  If only a quarter of the people on the list
are actually reading the messages when traffic is low, I am not sure of the
value of such a low volume list.

(I will note that those responses and others have resulted in 95 promised
book orders of which 47 have actually been confirmed and paid for.  This is
enough to warrant publishing the book, but is still quite disappointing
given the number of subscribers to the list - and we will lose lots of money
if the order count does not eventually creep up: break even point is close
to 500 books sold).

I am thus not only uninterested in trying to run a second low volume list
but am somewhat opposed to it given the current level of activity.  I think
that for people who want only a couple of messages a year, you would be
better advised to unsubscribe and then yourself at your convenience check
the Lojban WWW pages, which will have most any announcement of importance,
and I am sure that Veijo would be happy to set up an area for thread summaries
as well if someone would write them).  Listserver mailing lists are just not
the right avenue for serving youyr interest level.

I should also say that even if we were interested in running a second list,
we would not feel able to ask Columbia to host it.  Our long term use of this
list address has been at their sufferance - the person who originally got us
the use of the site has long since left Columbia and we have effectively no
basis on which to ask for anything from them.

The best way to get low volume information about Lojban would be to subscribe
to le lojbo karni, our snail-mail newsletter.  It hasn't come out in 3 years,
but subscribers will get any announcements of importance and will also, when
we resume publication, get a couple of issues a year with the sort of thing
I think you want.  In the past we have asked for around $5 for a year/4 issues
of LK, and this shoudl be reasonable for most people to pay, though we have
never refused a subscription to non-payers.

And if even that is not what you want, you can send me a registraion form,
or simply your name, address and other relevant particulars, and I keep your
name on file for eventual announcements even if you don't subscribe to
anything - of course if youmove or change addresses, you'll never hear from
us unless you keep us updated.

lojbab
----
lojbab                                                lojbab@access.digex.net
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA                        703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab
    or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/";
    Order _The Complete Lojban Language_ - see our Web pages or ask me.