Re: RV: na'e entails na?

[And Rosta <a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK>]

I am a bit behind on this resuscitated thread.

Geoff:
> > > Why not just use "drata"? Surely examples like this are part of what it's
> > > meant for.
> >
> > Maybe: try to convince me. Suppose a couple are lying in bed
> > discussing what kind of hankypanky they want to get up to,
> > e.g. (a) spondoogling, (b) frothspeasing, (c) urxing, or [INC OR]
> > (d) suppigulation. One says to the other "I would very much
> > enjoy that you na`e suppigulate me", which would mean
> > "I would enjoy that you spondoogle me and I would enjoy that
> > you frothspease me and I would enjoy that you urx me".
>
> No, that's not correct. If you na'e suppigulate someone, you could EITHER
> be spondoogling them, OR frothspeasing them OR urxing them. It doesn't
> entail that you do everything that is not suppigulation. Why would it?
> That would be saying that you want them to do roda poi na'e nu
> suppigulate, which is a totally different claim. If you want someone to
> na'e suppigulate you, then you only want them to do su'oda poi na'e
> nu suppigulate, which is the DISJUNCT of roda poi na nu suppigulate,
> NOT the conjunct.

The disjunction is within the scope of "I would enjoy":
"I would enjoy that you spondoogle or frothspease or urx me".
Hence it has the interpretation I gave it. You are reading it
with the disjunction having wide scope:

"For at least F out of {spnd, froth, urx} I would enjoy it if
you F me".

But in lojban scope goes left to right.

It might be easier to think of an example like "I would like it
if you gave me tea or coffee". As opposed to "There is some
quotidian beverage (tea, coffee) such that I would like it if
you gave me it".

> > Now presumably you are proposing that one should say
> > "I would > very much enjoy that you drata suppigulate me", but you will
> > surely concede that this tanru is susceptible to a far greater
> > variety of interpretations than the na`e version would be.
>
> I don't even understand how you have arrived at this interpretation.
> "Na'e" entailing "na" seems just fine for this sentence as it is.

Not sure I understand.

--And