Re: knowledge and belief

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

Jorge:
>Well, suppose that 1+1=2 is true by epistemology X.
>
>Then the following statement is a reasonable thing to say:
>
>        la djan na djuno le du'u li re sumji li pa li pa kei fo xy
>        It is not the case that John knows that 1+1=2 by X.
>
>Here it is clear that X is the epistemology by which we judge the
>truth of "1=1+2". Not the epistemology by which we judge whether
>John knows something.
>
>For that sentence to make sense, it must be true that 1+1=2 by X,
>even if John doesn't know it.

This works for what I've been calling "rational epistemologies".  But there
are some epistemologies that are so linked to John and his proneness to
claim knowledge of facts that "even if John doesn't know it" makes no sense.
One example of this would be instictive knowledge; another (more easily used
with du'u abstractions) is dream-based knowledge.

It is plausible that if John knows X from dream Y
that X is true by epistemology dream Y, but since dreams are
unverifiable and unreproducible, I am not sure that anyone other than John
could make that claim (X is true by epistemology Y).

I think most people would interpret jetnu as referring to only those
truths that are "knower-independent" - that the epsitemology is in some way
reproducible/verifiable so that most anyone in theory could claim to "know"
it by the common epsitemology.  There are instances, such as when John
speaks, where djuno implies jetnu, but that is not the typical or default to
be assumed.

jetnu is still considerably short of fatci, though, since by Newtonian
physics, Newton's laws are jetnu, but they are not currently considered fatci.

>>But it is not
>>clear to me how <djuno> differs from <krici>.
>
>{djuno} requires the x2 to be true. {krici} doesn't.

If djuno requires x2 to betrue by epistemology x4 9which is what I think
you are claiming, then djuno fo le li'i krici always implies krici
and krici always implies djuno fo le li'i krici.

But krici is another epistemology besides dreams that is generally
"knower" dependent, and hence it is not generally true that krici or
djuno fo le li'i krici imply jetnu le li'i krici

lojbab
----
lojbab                                                lojbab@access.digex.net
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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