Re: knowledge and belief

["Jorge J. Llambías" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>]

la mark cusku di'e
>It _often_ happens that a pragmatically minded person will
>use "know" in English for an assertion, the truth value of
>which is uncertain.

You mean that the person who said that someone knows X
will not also think that X is true? Can you give examples?

> Indeed, I contend that "know" is more
>often used in this way than in _any_ other.

Then it should be easy to find examples.

>> Actual usage of {djuno} has been like English "know",
>> not like English "is convinced".
>
>But you & I disagree on how English "know" is used;

I don't think we have disagreed about any concrete example,
we only seem to disagree in our descriptions. My claim is
that in every place that {djuno} has been used, the most
straightforward English translation would be "knows", and that
it would be an acceptable translation. Do you disagree with
that? If you do, then simply give an example where you would
use {djuno} in Lojban and you would not use "know" in
English, or viceversa.

>we are
>therefore quite unlikely to agree on the actual usage of
>{djuno}, which you liken to a usage of "know" that I think
>is actually quite rare.

Why rare? Can you give examples? My claim is that
a sentence like "John didn't go to the market, but Lojbab
knows that he did" is not normal in English, but if you
replace "know" by "is convinced" then it is perfectly normal.
Do you disagree with that? If you don't disagree, how do
you account for it, other than by saying that "know"
requires a presupposition of truth?

co'o mi'e xorxes