Re: Summary so far on DJUNO

[Rob Zook <rzook@INFORMIX.COM>]

At 08:22 PM 2/10/98 -0300, Jorge J. Llamb=EDas wrote:
lojbab:
>>And YOU are asking ME why Lojban is inherently subjective by default?

xorxes:
>What I meant is that there is nothing inherently subjective about
>Lojban or about English (or objective for that matter). Our beliefs can
>be subjective, but "subjective" is not a category that applies to=20
>languages.
>Even if you mean that assertions in a language are subjective, that still
>applies to the assertions no matter in which language they be made,
>so not to Lojban or to English.

One can most definitely apply subjectivity to language. Every single
language on this planet has it's own cultural relativisms imbedded in it.=20
For example, words like "gestault" have no English translation, one can=20
come close to gestault by translating it as "wholeness" but=20
"wholeness" !=3D "gestault".=20



>I know that's what you think, yes. You also know that's not what I think.
>
>Your opinion as to the meaning of {djuno} is based on what your
>intentions were of what it should mean.
>
>My opinion as to its meaning is based on what the gi'uste says it means.

What you interprate it to mean.


>What the gi'uste says does not agree with what your intentions were,
>so there is nothing strange in our having different opinions.

Given that le gi'uste only says this about djuno:

djuno [ jun ju'o ] know
     x1 knows fact(s) x2 (du'u) about subject x3 by epistemology x4=20
     [words usable for epistemology typically have a du'u place; know how=20
     to - implying knowledge of method but not necessarily having
     the ability to practice (=3D tadjyju'o)] (cf. know/familiar with: se=20
     slabu, na'e cnino, na'e fange; cmavo list du'o, cilre, certu, facki,=20
     jijnu, jimpe, senpi, smadi, kakne, birti, mipri, morji, saske, viska)=
=20

FWIW, I think lojbab right on the money here.


Rob Z.
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