Re: zo djuno ce zo jetyju'o

[Rick Nylander <rnylander@DTSI.COM>]

Lin Zhe Min:
>> The debate going on here is whether you can "know" something that
>> is not true, or more specifically, can  you say that Ken Shan knows
something
>> when you know it to be false (Ken, by whatever means he uses to
determine
>> truth, does not agree with you and considers it true).  It would be
>> intersting to know if zhidao or zhi alone can be used with false
propositions.
>
>I cannot understand you exactly... Can English speakers use 'know' in
this
>way? However, we don't use zhidao in every phrases.

No.  Typically, English "know" is only used with propositions that are
(believed to be) true in some absolute ("objective") sense.  At least
the majority of people seem to think this is the case.  (Note that we
can't even seem to agree on this small point.)

>K: I know that the earth is square.
>L: No, it is round.
[snip]
>
>It's okay to Chinese people (a bit comic and laughter... though.)
>to replace every 'know' to 'zhidao'. However, zhidao is not usually
used
>in such phrases. It sounds that you have strong will to tell other
people
>that you know this.

The debate here has focused primarily on the use of English "know" in
the third person - talking about what someone else knows.  For example:
"_John knows_ Bob has three children, but _Tom knows_ Bob has only two."

(This has been unfortunate - because the real discussion was about what
"djuno" means, but the debate continually got sidetracked to discussing
English "know".)

Using your example, would it be OK for me to say "K knows the world is a
square, but L knows it is round," using "zhidao" for "knows"?  If not,
how would you say such a thing in Chinese?

co'o mi'e rik.