Re: zo djuno ce zo jetyju'o

[And Rosta <a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK>]

Rob:
> >> 'djuno' means what the baseline says it does, i.e. what lojbab intended.
> >
> >This is surely the crux. Are we really going to have to interrogate
> >Lojbab at inordinate length about the meaning of every gismu. And
> >note that even the gismu that seem straightforward, e.g. djuno, can
> >turn out not to be.
>
> But so far only 3 people (by my count anyway) on this list seem to have
> problem with the straightforwardness of djuno's entry.

If you mean that only 3 people object to the small degree of
straightforwardness of djuno`s entry, you may well be right. I think
pretty much everyone is resigned to it and accepts it as inevitable
that such things arise if there is a guillotine on revision to the
gi`uste.

If you mean that only 3 people believe that djuno`s entry is less
than fully straightforward, I suspect your count of 3 is too small.
Certainly a fair number of people have agreed about the the meaning
of English _know_ (about which I myself am in relevant respects
birti), and I doubt that anyone - certainly Lojbab least of all -
thinks that there is no significantly different between the meaning
of _know_ and the meaning Lojbab intended for _djuno_.

> >We just have two competing definitions of {djuno}. One, which is
> >different from but akin to English "know", and which has been clearly
> >articulated, and the other which Lojbab has been striving to
> >articulate with varying degrees of success.
> >
> >How do we choose between them? - e.g. if we are going to use {djuno},
> >which meaning will we intend it to have? Do we just ask Lojbab to
> >pronounce on the matter, and do our best to understand what his
> >pronouncements mean, and just swallow and accept it if they turn out
> >to be incoherent, or do we actually deliberate the issue, looking
> >at the intrinsic sensicality of the candidate meanings, and their
> >relationship to the meanings of other Lojban vocables?
>
> Perhaps it would help if you could repost this so-called "clearly
> articulated" view of djuno? I remember no such animal.

Presumably you have just been skimming the thread, which is what I
often do when I'm not actively participating.

The view I was referring to is that the meaning is:

   x2 is true about x3 and epistemology x4 convinces x1 that x2 is true
      about x3

--And.