respoonse to Art Protin on questions - which are never dumb

[lojbab (Bob LeChevalier)]

Art Protin writes:
>I have started to correspond with someone using nothing but lojban.
>(That means we're not saying much yet, but we are both making progress.)
>This situtation leads to mountains of questions and more than enough of
>them are of a trivial nature (or nearly so).  After posting the first of
>these trivial questions I am left with very mixed emotions.  So many
>kind people responded with aid that I realize using this forum for such
>queries consumes a terribly large amount of bandwidth.  However, given
>that I did receive wrong answers, it is not clear that even questions as
>trivial as that are a waste of our time and resources.  What do the rest
>of you think?  Is it time to split the list in two:  one for theory, and
>one for usage (with the view that when it gets big enough that usage can
>be further subdivided into beginners and non-beginners (maybe by then I
>won't have to ask queries in the beginner's-usage-list))?  Should I
>direct-email my questions to a few of the more experienced lojbani and
>only post questions after we find ones that are not trivial?

No! (.iicairo'e = horror-intense-mental)

1. The 'experienced' Lojbani you are referring to are probably Cowan and
myself, and as time goes on we will have less and less time to go on.
Thus, wherever possible, I would rather see a 'less-experienced' person
respond.

2. The best way to learn Lojban is to try to use it.  The second best way
is to explain to someone else.  This helps the 'less-experienced' get more
skilled.

3. If you are getting wrong answers, that means there is mis-knowledge
out there.  The best way to root out mis-knowledge is to have it stick
its nose up in the air to be sliced off.  This does not mean that we
slice off the heads of those who guess wrong.  You cannot learn any
system as complex as a language without making some mistakes.  I
encourage everyone to attempt to answer the simple questions.  So what
if you are wrong?  You will find out, and learn better for next time.
(When I flame someone like jimc, it is because it is a point he hasn't
learned after 10 years of being corrected on the same point.  I also
occasionally get upset and flame a novice like I did Sandman last
winter; I am usually at least partially wrong to do so and deserve
counterflames.  I do urge that people with the draft textbook read it
and try the exercises therein before or during attempts to express your
innermost English thoughts.  This is because what most people try to say
is usually beyond their knowledge before they have finished most or all
of the draft lessons.)

In short, we want people to make errors, so everyone learns.

4. People making errors can help us identify problem areas in the
teaching materials.

5. Even 'experienced' Lojbani's don't know everything.  You'd be
surprised how much I learn from novices trying to express things in
Lojban, and from the erroneous answers that are sometimes given.  The
whole cleft places discussion stemmed from accumulated observations of
errors and misunderstandings by people trying to use the language.
About half the bells and whistles added since we split off from the
Institute have derived directly from the comments of learners.  For
example, the Negation paper is a long-winded answer to a question asked
by class-student Albion Zeglin in 1989.

Thus:  I see NO reason to split up the list, and every reason to see
more of the 'stupid questions' you are afraid of asking.  They aren't
stupid, and many others want to know the answers.  The discussion that
ensue are much more interesting than the hyperformal and
hypertheoretical ones that sometimes come to dominate the discussion.
In fact, I can honestly state that a long, formal argument has much less
chance of influencing the language design than a bunch of sample
sentences and some questions that arose in trying to express them.  We
are mostly past the engineering phase of the language, and want to
deal with REAL usage questions, which muct occur in a context of real
usage.

>Has anybody compiled a (FAQ) list of "Frequently Asked
>Questions" for lojban-list?

No.  And I'm not sure I've seen any one question asked on the list more
than once or twice, except maybe questions about the culture gismu - and
the latter is more a 'why did you do it' than 'how do you say it'
question, and 'can I get X sent to me electronically', which is a now-
settled policy question.

I would welcome people posing questions they think are good and obvious
'frequently asked' questions, technical or otherwise.  I or someone will
happily assemble them, and any answers that get posted.  The result can
appear here, on the PLS, and in JL.  I suggest marking the question as
a proposed question if you don;t really want an answer.

Ask away. and I look forward to everyone else trying to answer.  I'll
watch on the sidelines as long as possible, but Cowan and I will do our
best not to let erroneous answers stand very long - so you needn;t fear
bad information.  Then test the answer for understanding and post
a sample sentence or two based on what you understand the answer to be
- the best check as to whether the answerer has made sense.

lojbab