a textual present from Tuesday night. Improvements sought.

[Ivan A Derzhanski <cbmvax!uunet!COGSCI.ED.AC.UK!iad>]

>  Date:     Wed, 20 May 1992 16:56:23 -0400
>  From: Logical Language Group <lojbab@COM.GREBYN>

It is my firm belief that the Alice books don't stand translation.
They rely on _nonsense_, which, when translated, becomes _rubbish_.
It is bad enough that the modern reader doesn't have the historical
context which is necessary to get many if not most of the quips.

Now the English word "knight" means two things.  First, it is a piece
in chess.  Nothing {nobli} about it.  Second, it is an honorary title.
Nothing {xirma} about it.  I have an acquaintance who is a KGOT, and
I'm sure he wouldn't know a horse from a kangaroo.  So {xirno'i}
doesn't really sound right.  (It is an excellent word for an upper-
class huyhnhnm, on the other hand.)

Anyone want to propose a full list of (1) titles of nobility, (2)
chess pieces, and, while we're at it, (3) card ranks and suits?  The
chess knight, for instance, is called (lit.) {plipe} in German and
{xirma} in Russian and Bulgarian.

>  <<lu xekli'i fiprgadidei kanla li'u>>

What does {xekli'i} stand for here?  I take it {gadidei} is Latin or
something for `haddock'.  The revolting Bulgarian translation I first
read had simply {le kanla be le finpe}, and, as Colin will confirm, it
ought to be enough.

>  le xirno'i noi firsku leka selfanza

You lost "a little" from "looking a little vexed".  By the way, "the
Knight" is effectively the name of this character, so he ought to be
called {la lab. xirnol.}, or {la xirnol.} for short.  Even better,
assign a KOhA to him and Alice in the beginning and don't repeat the
names all the time.

>  le go'a cu cmene le tcita

{le go'a}?  Why not {ri}?

>  .i tcita fa je'abo <<lu le slabu slabu nanmu li'u>>

{da'inai le tcita mela'e lu le je'a to'erci'o nanmu li'u}  (Folks,
{slabu} is {to'e cnino}, not {to'e citno}, right?)

We have to be consistent, you know.

the name of S is called L ... {L cmene le tcita be S}
S is called L ............... {L cmene le S}
the name of S is L .......... {le tcita be S mela'e L} or {L tcita S}
S is L ...................... {S mela'e L}
  (_not_ {S du L}! - see marginnote 8 in _The Annotated Alice_)

>  ri selcme le salsanga

{ri cmene le selsanga}

>  .o'ocu'iro'e

{.o'onairo'e} would've been more to the point.

>  le selsanga cu mo

I'd take that {cu} out.

>  <<lu le nuntse be fi lo vorme li'u>>

Damn.  That's the {N nuntse X Y} from {X zutse Y}, right?  Where in
the grammar does it say that this is the way {nunP} works (shifting
P's arguments one place forward and freeing x1 for the event itself)?
Anyway, I'd prefer {lu zutse le vorme li'u}.

Ivan