Re: Pro-sumti/pro-bridi paper, draft 1.1

[C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK]

> >Private inquiry:  just what do all those Welsh vowels mean?  I don't have
> >access to a decent (read IPA) description of them.  Are there really 7
> >vowel phonemes?
>
> I'll answer as best as I can, but bear in mind that I'm a beginnger at this
> Welsh stuff and my sources are all about Modern Welsh as she is spoke, so
> there are likely more distinctions historically.
>
> Welsh vowels: a e i o u w y.  All vowels may be short or long.  "s" is
> basically a Lojban {a}, short or long.  "e" is a lojban {e}, i.e. epsilon,
> when short, but more an IPA /e:/ when long.  "i" is lojban {i}/IPA /i:/ or
> /i/.  It's sometimes used as a semivowel, /j/.  "o" is lojban {o}, IPA /o:/
> or /o/.  Then it gets fun.
>
> Short "u" is pronounced like "i", IPA /i/.  No, that's not a typo.  "Pump"
> sounds like English "pimp", "punt" sounds like "pinn-t", etc.  Long "u" is
> pronouced /i:/ in S. Wales, but more gutterally in N. Wales.  The symbol my
> book has is /barred-i:/, but I'm not sure what sound that is.  Anyone?
> Basically, *nowhere* is "u" sounded like /u/, more like /i/.  This is a
> tricky thing for a foreigner to remember, I've found.  "Mul" sounds like
> English "meal", "dau" sounds like English "die", etc.

In North Wales, "u" is a high unrounded mid-to-back vowel (which is what
is meant be /barred-i/ Try saying /u/ but drawing the lips back. So /pimp/
may be the closest English to "pump", but it's not really close. I can't
think of any cases in Welsh where "i" and "u" are in complementary
distribution, but I'm sure there are some.
It is not uncommon to hear English newsreaders trying to pronounce "Llandudno",
and carefully getting the "ll" right (unvoiced /l/), but then pronouncing
the 'u' as in English.

Note that "ei" (his/hers) and "eu" (theirs) are more or less homophonous
(though in many context they are distinguished by the mutation of the
following consonant).
>
> "w" is pronounced like /u:/ or /u/, sometimes used as a semivowel /w/ or
> even semiconsonantally, e.g. the common word-initials "gwl-" and "gwr-",
> which are not considered separate syllables.  "y" has two sounds: clear and
> obscure.  Clear "y" has pretty much the same sounds as "u": /i:/ or
> /barred-i:/ when long and /i/ when short.  Obscure "y" is a schwa.  It can
> be stressed when clear or obscure, though like all vowels cannot be long
> when unstressed.  In the words I was using, the "y" is obscure.  The stress
> supposedly falls on the penultimate, but listening to the tapes I've found
> that not to be true in many cases, including "yma" and "yna", where it
> sounds more like the stress is on the last syllable.  The stress isn't very
> heavy anyway, so you could get away with it in either place.
>
> Incidentally, I recall a discussion about a le'avla for Wales, and the
> trouble caused by the prohibition against {y} in le'avla, since the Welsh
> name for Wales is "Cymru" -- {KYMri} in lojban orthography.  Using a bit of
> Lojbab's method of falling back on writing when sounds fail us, I'd stick
> with {gugdrkimri/o}, since the "y" also makes the sound of "i", and in fact
> may have during the course of the derivation of the word (I heard something
> about how "Cymro"/Welshman comes from someone of the same "bro"/country,
> thus implying something with "Cym-" or "Cyn-" that nasalized the "b", and
> in almost all one-syllable words, "y" is clear.  But the derivation needn't
> be true, of course).  OBTW, I made a tiny error: "dyma" comes from "Gwel
> di yma", with a circumflex over the "e".

I also have heard this derivation.
'y' is normally clear in final syllables, and in monosyllables except for
enclitics ('y'/'yr' - the; 'fy' - my etc). When long it is usually marked
with a circumflex ('ty' - house).  Note the Welsh name for Oxford,
'Rhydychen' where the first 'y' is clear and the second obscure, because this
is a compound of the monosyllabic 'rhyd' (ford).

        Colin