TECH: experimental cmavo "xo'e"

["Mark E. Shoulson" <shoulson@CTR.COLUMBIA.EDU>]

>Date:         Fri, 7 May 1993 12:29:28 -0700
>From: hedgehog%SCRIPPS.EDU@CUVMB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU
>X-To:         lojban@cuvmb.cc.columbia.edu

>>>Isn't the difference between "zbasu fi noda" and "zbasu fi xo'e" that the
>>>first recognizes that x1 makes x2 from nothing (but it *could* have been
>>>made from something) and the second says that x1 makes x2 *period*?  "zabsu
>>>fi zo'e" says that x1 makes x2 from something-or-other.
>>
>>But what does "x1 makes x2 period" mean?  Does it mean you're not saying
>>anything about the existence or non-existence of the materials?  That's {fi
>>zo'e}, since {zo'e} can be {noda}.  Does it mean there are no such
>>materials?  That's {fi noda}.  {xo'e} does seem to have a meaning in some
>>cases, distinct from {noda} or {zo'e}, but apparently not in this case.  I
>>am not sure how this can be defined in general.
>>
>>~mark


>"x1 makes x2 period" means that the question of the materials is
>inappropriate.
>How about "A mind makes (or produces) a thought".  The thought isn't made
>of nothing. The thought isn't made of an unspecified material.  The
>question of material just isn't appropriate.

A good answer.  I must think about this and try to see how it generalizes.

>I also want to make it clear that I am not an advocate of _xo'e_.  I feel
>that it would introduce the sort of grammatical ambiguity than Lojban is
>intended to reduce.  If there is a need to say "x1 makes x2",  I would
>rather see a new gismu introduced than _xo'e_.

...and such a gismu exists: that's what {finti} is for.  This, of course,
is the motivation for {xo'e} in the first place, to enable such selbri as
{cliva} (and {litru}) and {finti} to be created from "fuller" ones like
{klama} and {zbasu}.  The need was for a general way to do this on the fly,
since you can't make up gismu in mid-discussion.

~mark