Re: comments on the batch of lujvo etc. psoted thus far

[Mr Andrew Rosta <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>]

Lojbab writes:
> >> connotation         X1 is a connotation of X2 A meaning beyond the official
> >>                       meaning set. Discouraged
> >no'e ralju smuni  (non-principal meaning)
> >cizra smuni       (strange meaning)
> >rirci smuni       (rare meaning)
>
> The first sounds reminiscent of the concept 'secondary meaning' which is
> the English metaphor used to describe the word.  The others ring no
> bells for me - just not what the word means.  I kinda like Nick's
> intuitive meaning.  Another might be kulnu selsmu, which moves beyond
> connotations of words to the whole realm of culturally implied meanings
> associated with words, actions, objects.

What is a connotation? Before choosing a lujvo we should know what
it is supposed to mean.

> >> cake                X1 is a cake with special ingredient X2 E.g. carrot cak
 e,
> >>  banana cake.
> >nabysmi         nanba simsa     (bread-similar)
>
> very general - titnanba is the locally common lujvo

titnanba seems the obvious lujvo to me.

> From: Mr Andrew Rosta <ucleaar@UCL.AC.UK>
> > Nick:
> >> #Erik:
> >> #> blond               X1 is blond A color special to human hair.
> >> #> krepelxu  kerfa pelxu
> >> #'light' (as opposed to dark) might be better than 'yellow', but
> >> #I've not been able  to find a gismu for 'light/bright' (reflecting
> >> #or emitting much light). Surely there should be one.
> >>
> >> Strangely enough, it has been alleged that 'carmi' is such a gismu. In any
> >> case, there is little wrong with 'tolmanku' (to'e manku).
> >
> >_cainkre_ then? Or _krecai_. But the 'opposite'of _carmi_ is
> >_milxe_ rather than _manku_. Yes tohermanku suffices, but generally
> >the antonyms of gismu like _manku_ are gismu, so I was pointing
> >out a gap in the vocab rather than a problem of expression.
>
> The opposite of manku is some variation of gusni, but these are not
> recommended for colors.  For 'light' and 'dark' use blabi and xekri.

kreblabi then, so long as blabi means not white but pale

> The opposite of carmi is kandi
> The opposite of milxe is either mutce or traji

carmi/mutce and kandi/milxe seem pretty interchangeable.

> I suspect that kerfykandi is a good general word for blond hair, noting that
> blond is originally a genotype that includes "pale" skin color skapykandi.

I cannot see why blond hair is more kandi than dark hair, except on
the scale of darkness. On the scale of lightness dark hair would be
more kandi.

> >#tent: buhuzda (cloth abode)
> >
> >maybe bu'urdi'u (cloth building).
>
> probably better, or even bukpymarbi or bukpydrudi

bu'urdi'u is the best.

> >#Consonant & vowel (in morphology, phonology, not in phonetics)
> >#C: jaklerfu (narrow - articulatory aperture)
> >#V: ganlerfu (wide) [with ganro expropriating the rafsi of
> >#                    _garna_ 'rail']
> >These are the best.
>
> No they aren't.  The lerfu is the symbol, and people here immediately
> thought someone was going for printer terminology.  Something like
> zuntysance and kalrysance would work better for me.

This was exactly my intention. I assumed that what was wanted was
not phonetic terms (which should be thought out all at once; cf.
Nick's long list of fuhivla for phonetics) but phonological &
graphological terms, i.e. for the symbols used in combination
to represent words. The usage I imagined was intended was describing
the CV structure of words, which is important in Lojban. Note that
what is important is the arrangement of symbols in lojban words,
not the arrangement of sounds: I doubt that by looking at a
film of the vocal apparatus moving or at a spectrogram one would
be able to discern which of the primary parts of speech the
utterance belonged to.

I may be mistaken, & 'lerfu' may be restricted to visual symbols,
but if this is the case I do not think it a good idea.

----
And