{mluni} (was Re: TEXT: le gunse ku joi le lorxu)

[Dylan Thurston <dpt@abel.MATH.HARVARD.EDU>]

la xorxes. puki cusku di'e
> > > > Why not? I don't like the many irrelevant places of {klama}, but what
> > > > can I do? Any suggestions for how to say "go around the oven"?

la djan. baki cusku di'e
> > > "mluni le toknu".

I'm not sure I said this, but I really like this suggestion.  It's a
very creative use of what would otherwise be a rather technical term.

xy. baki cusku di'e
> > i mluni le toknu ma ma

> > (How are those places filled anyway? Why does {mluni} have a place for
> > "characteristics", whatever they are, and {klama} doesn't? How are
> > orbital parameters x4 specified? Wouldn't space tenses work much better
> > for that?)

If I were to actually use this, I'd interpret "orbital characteristics"
to be a route, as in {klama}, {litru}, etc.  I have no idea why
"planetary characteristics" are there.  Wouldn't those be better handled
by a relative clause?

(If there are only two bodies, the sattelite and the thing it's
orbiting, the sattelite moves in an ellipse with the center of mass at
one focus--not always a circle.  But things get much more complicated
with more bodies in the system or with General Relativity--I don't think
any sort of "orbital characteristics" can specify the motion then.)

dy ba cusku di'e
> I suspect all that stuff is there because {la lojbab. purci ke tarske djuno}.
> Anyway, I didn't mean the suggestion seriously.  I suspect that that the
> existence of x4 requires that the movement of x1 around x2 be ballistic in
> nature: a ball can {mluni}, but a person doesn't really {mluni} an oven.

Well, I'd like to take it seriously.  Consider the following gismu:

mluni [lun]
x1 is a satellite/moon orbiting x2 with characteristics x3, orbital
parameters x4

lunra [lur]
x1 is Earth's moon (default); x1 is a major natural satellite/moon of
planet x2

plini [ ]
x1 is a planet revolving around x2 with planetary characteristics x3,
orbital parameters x4

First of all, the place structures are inconsistent, so something should
definitely be changed.

The difference between a {mluni} and a {lunra}, as strictly interpreted,
seems to be that a {mluni} could include an artificial sattelite; and
the difference between {lunra} and {plini} is primarily one of size:  a
{lunra} is a {cmaplini} (modulo place structure).

I think I see why {plini} has a place for "planetary characteristics"; so
you could say, e.g., {le fi le xunre ku plini} to mean Mars.  But again,
this could be done with a relative clause, {le plini poi xunre}, or a
tanru, {le xunre plini}, or a lujvo, {le xunplini}.  I'd nominate that
that place be removed.

I'd also nominate that {mluni} not be restricted to astronomical
bodies--that seems like an artificial restriction that's not necessary.

And I'd also nominate that "orbital characteristics" be changed to
"route" to confuse people less.  Even for astronomical use, I think
that's fine.  (Though it might make saying something like "geosynchronous
sattelite" somewhat more difficult.)

The restriction to ballistic flight is an interesting idea--then one
could say {le bolci le stedu cu mluni}, but not {le lorxu cu mluni le
toknu}.  I don't know where I stand on that.

co'o mi'e. dilyn.