Re: PLI: "except"

[Goran Topic <topic@STUDENT.MATH.HR>]

.i coicai doi xorxes. .i gleki fa mi lenu do krefu jundi

> >.i la'ede'u binxo na'eke mutce ja vajni besecau loi gugdrneire .e su'o
> >drata zo'o
> >
> >This is a small and fairly irrelevant change except to the Irish and some
> >others... :)
>
> The little word "except" is another one of those that are not very
> easy to put into Lojban. I don't think that {secau} works as used here.

.i pe'icu'i do drani .i mi puze'a pensi la'ede'u .i tu'ada'u xagmau lei
pu sidbo befi mi .i la'e roloi sumti be zo vajni peda'u cu claxu loi
gugdrneire .e su'o drata .iku'i di'u da'u smuni blesimsa jenai dunli

I think you might be right there. I did think about that, and the cau
thingy seemed the best of the ideas I had... {...}. But this, although
similar, is not quite the same.

> My first impression is that "except" has to be done somehow with {na'e}.
> For example:
>
>         la'e de'u cu nalvajni ro na'e se gugdrxeire
>         That is irrelevant to every non-Irish.
>
> That still doesn't work very well because it doesn't say that it _is_
> relevant to the Irish, although maybe it suggests it. We could turn it
> around and say that it is relevant only to the Irish:

.i .ie .i ju'ocu'i.e'u lu da se nalvajni gi'o gugdrneire li'u .i
tu'adi'u tcelogji gi'ela'a nandu na'ebo loi logji certu .i mi na djuno
ku'i ledu'u ta'i makau cusku la'elu su'o drata li'u

Yes. What about {da se nalvajni gi'o gugdrneire}? This is very logical,
and maybe difficult for those not logically minded. But I don't know
what to do with "and some others" part.

> Since "except"
> seems to be much related to "only", I propose {po'onai} for that function:
>
>         la'e de'u cu nalvajni lei po'onai se gugdrxeire
>         That is irrelevant to the Irish only-not.
>         (i.e. that is irrelevant except to the Irish,
>         only-not to the Irish.)

.i .ienaisai .i ci'o mi lu da po'onai li'u selsmu la'elu da noi na'e pamei li'u
noi dunli la'elu da .e su'ode poi drata da li'u

I disagree. IMHO, po'onai means "not solely/uniquely", or "it works for
them, but not only for them."

co'o mi'e. goran.

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