Re: ka/ni kama

["Lee Daniel Crocker (none)" <lcrocker@MERCURY.COLOSSUS.NET>]

> [much about the use of {kanli} and {merli}, which makes
> sense, elided for brevity]

> >> And then you must disagree with things like:
> >>         le ni la djan cu ricfu cu du li piso'i
> >>         The extent to which John is rich is a lot.

> >they are not very useful as quantifiers.
>
> Why not? Since no terbri asks for a dimensioned number,
> where would you use them? As pure numbers they work
> well:
>         ta mitre li rau
>         That is long enough.

If all brivla were designed as you say, where quantities always
had separate places for number and scale, then {li rau} et al.
would indeed be useful as pure numbers, and pure numbers would
be useful as general quantifiers with the scale simply elided.

> > How do you answer {ma junta}?
>
> That's a good question! I wonder why there is such a word
> for weight but not for things like length, size, age, etc.

If quantities are as you say (and that's a good way for them
to be), then {junta} is wrong.

> >The abstract properties like "weight" and "luminosity" and "length"
> >must be expressible without reference to specific heavy, bright, or long
> >things, because the mind can think of them that way.
>
> The mind sure can be kidded into thinking of them. But you haven't
> convinced me yet that there's something you can't say in Lojban
> because of the lack of dimensioned numbers.

Not wanting to get into the philosophical argument of whether or
not qualia are meaningful existents, I /can/ ask what are "pure"
numbers if not qualia?  If /these/ qualia are basic to the language,
why can't I express others?

And that brings to mind the obvious place one might want dimensioned
quantities: in mekso.  If one can say that 2+2=4 without implying
that 4 of something are around somewhere, why can I not say that a
newton is a kg*m/sec^2 without implying that any pushing is going on?

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lcrocker.html>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC