Re: Dr. Seuss and translating illogicality

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

>First, lojban gismu embody relationships that hold in our standard universe.
>For instance, klama has an x4 place for route that, even if not specified,
>is fundamental to the relationship.  This is because in our universe it is
>impossible to go from one place to another without passing through some
>intermediate points.  Now imagine a world where magic works and one can
>transport oneself instantaneously anywhere; there is no longer a route, so
>what occupies the x4 place?  We could use "nowhere", but if teleportation
>were the only method of locomotion in this universe, then "route" would be
>fundamentally not a part of the relationship; how do we represent this in
>lojban?

I would use "le makfa" for x4 if asked, and omit it otherwise.  But of
course a different word without the x4 would be clearer and more specific.
location-altered perhaps (stuselga'i).

>This brings me onto the second point, which is how do we invent words for
>things that are completely outside our current range of experience?

This is the Jabberwocky problem, which has been discussed a few times on the
list.  I don't think it is too difficult.  The problem is that we have no
fluent Lojbvan spekaers who would be able to  deduce much useful about the
intended meanings from the relative contexts.

>An
>extreme form of this are the "nonsense words" used by Seuss, where the
>meanings are not defined, and one "gets a feel" for what the word means
>through its obvious grammatical form, its usage and possibly alliterative
>associations (e.g. "He strongled the wubbit vibatiously").

ko'a vilgelxygau le roctu sekai leka sliglekambo'e

and I even managed a little Lojbanic alliteration in the two long coined words.

(note: gelxu and roctu are not in the gismu list %^)

I could probably have used a coined gismu instead of bo'e too.  Someone
mightthink it actually means something using bo'e %^)

>Lojban has far fewer syntactic and morphological signposts to help out here
>and, as far as I know, no way of providing the reader with an indication of
>the new bridi's place structure without explicitly defining it

As I showed, this can be solved.  You can know that a lujvo ending with
gau has a basic place structure resembling gasnu, with an agent and a thing
done.  You know from a sekai le ka broda that I am giving an adverbial
characteristic of the action, and in this case I have used some real
rafsi to give  sense ofwhat kind of characteristics  (someone else might
choose different ones of course).

I am sure with more than the 1 minute thought I gave it, someone could
actually do a meaningful Jabberwocky translation.

lojbab