Re: terminators

[Ivan A Derzhanski <iad@MATH.ACAD.BG>]

Lee Sau Dan ~{@nJX6X~} wrote:
> >>>>> "Ivan" == Ivan A Derzhanski <iad@MATH.ACAD.BG> writes:
>     Ivan> A terminator is a (frequently optional) right bracket
>     Ivan> that matches a required left bracket.  If a postposition
>     Ivan> is a right bracket, what is the left?
>
> That's  implicit -- analoguous the  elided terminators in Lojban.

But the point is that in Lojban the terminators, while optional,
are not always elided.


Robin Turner wrote:
> Maybe it's a matter of perspective whether you regard the Y in a X ....
> Y .... structure as a terminator for the first phrase, or the beginning
> of the second phrase, or something to link the two.

Most of the time there wouldn't be much room for argument.  In the English
_if ... then ..._ construction it is very obvious that _then_ introduces
the consequent as opposed to terminating the condition or linking the two.

> Funnily enough, while I was racking my brains trying to remember Chinese,
> I ignored a really obvious one ...
>
> Je *ne* le crois *pas*
>
> If "pas" isn't a terminator here, I'd like to know what is!

Hm.  Actually, in modern colloquial French _pas_ is the true negative
element and _ne_ is the optional ... initiator, or whatever you want
to call it, with no semantic content of its own.  Originally it was
the other way around, of course.

> A language which used pre- and post-positions at the
> same time would certainly qualify, though.  The problem is that as far as
> I can see, whenever a language has a grammatical word before and after a
> phrase, one of the pair is nearly always elidable.

The best example of that that I can think of is ... yes, Chinese again,
with its _zai4 ... shang4/xia4/..._-kind of circumfixes.  And then there
are the double articles of Swedish: _de goda hunderna_ `the good dogs',
where both _de_ and _-na_ are plural definite articles.

But it's going to be tough, I think, to find a natural language that is
as happy *nesting* such constructions as Lojban is.

--
`Meum est propositum in taberna mori;    Vinum sit appositum sitienti ori:
 Ut dicant cum venerint angelorum chori "Deus sit propitius isti potatori".'
                          (Archpoet of Cologne, `The Confession of Golias')
Ivan A Derzhanski                              <iad@banmatpc.math.acad.bg>
H: cplx Iztok bl 91, 1113 Sofia, Bulgaria  <http://www.math.acad.bg/~iad/>
W: Dept for Math Lx, Inst for Maths & CompSci, Bulg Acad of Sciences