Re: Ironic Use of Attitudinals

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

 >Also sprach refgram --
>
>     It is important to realize that ``.uu'', and indeed all
>attitudinals,
>     are meant to be used sincerely, not ironically. In English, the
>     exclamation ``Pity!'' is just as likely to be ironically intended,
>but
>     this usage does not extend to Lojban. Lying with attitudinals is
>     (normally) as inappropriate to Lojban discourse as any other kind of
>     lying: perhaps worse, because misunderstood emotions can cause even
>     greater problems than misunderstood statements.
>
>I assume the refgram is merely saying that none of the attitudinals are
>ironic by default, rather than that attitudinals should never be used
>ironically. Is this right?

Since the attitudinals are intended to be expressions of internal states
rather than statements about those internal states, a fluent speaker
should not use attitudinals ironically.  The fluent spe
aker will show
his feelings openly (or express the hiding of feelings perhaps).  Ironic
usages are by implication statements about feelings rather than ex
pressions
of them.  It takes conscious thought to express an emotion falsely or
ironically.

So I hope no one starts using the attitduinals ironically ever.  Kinda would spo
il their purpose.

As a bit of background, we've had the specific debate that an attitudinal
expression is NOT the same as a metalomguistic comment claiming the
speaker feels the emotion, i.e.
.ui
is not the same as
sei mi gleki

although both would be used in pretty much the same ways.
But "sei mi gleki" is a predication and hence can be evaluated as true
or false.  Attitudinals are supposed to be beyond truth or falsity (though
they may affect the truth-functionality of a bridi they are attached to.

lojbab
----
lojbab                                                lojbab@access.digex.net
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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