Re: mukti / djica

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

>In summary, we have identified two differences between djica and
>mukti:
>
>1- {le te mukti} must be the agent of {le se mukti}, whereas there
>need not be any such relation between {le djica} and {le se djica}.

Usually.  I can imagine cases where le te mukti is not an agent of le se mukti,
but they might be idiosyncratic or even embedded sumti raising.  Someone might
have a motive x1 for an event x2 which he is not the active agent in, but
rather a driving force behind.  e.g. perhaps "staying in power" was a
motvie for "exiling people to Siberia" by the volition of Stalin, even
though Stalin might never personally have performed the act of focring the
peopl onto the train.  But he was at least an instigating agent.

>2- {le mukti} happens before {le se mukti}, but {le te djica} happens
>after {le se djica}.

I agree with the first, not sure of the second.  We can decide that we want
something not to have happened that has already happened. and I'm not sure
how the time sequencing goes then.  In general, though I agree that goals
come after the events leading towards those goals, and motives and
desires come before the events motivated by the motive and/or the desire.

But I think that putting too much emphasis on time sequencing here is
risky.  One major point about having a rich causality system in Loglan/Lojban
was to separate causality from conditionals and tensed sentences.  In the
real world, causality is of course generally time-dependent, but I will cite
Pynchon's Gravity's Rainbow as a novel in which causality (and perhaps
motivation as well) is all screwed up with respect to time sequencing.
(not that I've ever made it through the book  _ i've just been told that this
is what it's about).

lojbab
----
lojbab                                                lojbab@access.digex.net
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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