Re: le/lo

[bob@MEGALITH.RATTLESNAKE.COM]

And Rosta wrote

   {lo} is intrinsically non-specific and {le} is intrinsically
   specific. There's no way of using {lo} as specific or {le}
   as non-specific. ...

   > Specificity is a sometime side-effect of veridicality.

   I am baffled as to how you can conclude this.

Now there are two of us that are baffled!  The issue is how best to
translate {le} and {lo} into English when using the short glosses `a'
and `the'.  One proposal, that I oppose, is always to use `a' for {lo}
and `the' for {le}.

I am baffled because I cannot see how you fail to see that when
translating into the English, it is sometimes (but not always) better
to use the word `the' when referring to one object, rather than the
word `a'.

Consider a `veridicality operator' that is a regular expression
search.  In a universe with at least one pattern that it finds, it
works like {lo}; that is to say, the search finds
`one-or-more-of-all-the-things-which-really-match' the pattern.

Let the LogFlash cmavo list of 06/01/93, 00968 be our universe: in
this cmavo list, a search for {.ua} at the beginning of a line leads
to two instances of the class that are veridical -- two instances that
match the search pattern.

Expressed another way, this `veridicality operator' finds the one or
more of those that really are.  Also, note that the regular expression
search is not specific.

    (occur "^\\.ua") ==>

        .uanai    UI*1  confusion
        .ua       UI1   discovery

However if you change the regular expression search to look for {.ua}
at the beginning of a line followed by a space after the letter `a',
then only one instance is found.  In this case, even though the
{lo}-type operator is not specific, it finds just one specific
occurrence since there is only one instance of the pattern in the
universe.

    (occur "^\\.ua ") ==>

        .ua       UI1   discovery

The issue at hand is how best to translate from the Lojban to the
English in this circumstance.

In this latter case, is it better style to refer to

    an instance found, an one pattern "^\\.ua ",

or is it better to refer to

    the instance found, the one pattern "^\\.ua "?

If your use of English is at all like mine, you will find that the
second translation, using "the", sounds better.  This is because the
English phrase `an instance' suggests you are dealing with one of a
plurality of instances, but `the instance' suggests you are dealing
with just one instance.  The Lojban {lo} and {le} do not suggest
singular or plural, which the English `a' and `the' do.

In this case, the Lojban {lo te facki} does not tell you whether there
is possibly more than one instance of the regular expression:
"^\\.ua ".  Context determines whether `the instance discovered' or
`an instance discovered' is a better translation into English (when
you are using short glosses rather than the longer, more accurate
ones).

Likewise, of course, {le mlatu} is quite specific, but without more
context, you don't know whether to translate the expression as `the
cat' or as `the cats'.  Again, it is only the context that tells you
which short gloss to use when translating into English.

Hence, my recommendation that English translators start out by using
the long, somewhat unwieldy glosses rather than the short ones.

        {le}    one-or-more-specific-things-which-I-describe-as

        {lo}    one-or-more-of-all-the-things-which-really

    lo te facki
                one or more of all the things which really is or are
                instances discovered

    le mlatu
               one or more specific things which I describe as cats

--

    Robert J. Chassell               bob@rattlesnake.com
    25 Rattlesnake Mountain Road     bob@ai.mit.edu
    Stockbridge, MA 01262-0693 USA   (413) 298-4725