Re: Summary so far on DJUNO

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

>1. Jorge is completely correct about the meaning of "know", but
>   not everyone has managed to realize it.
>
>2. "Djuno" is in the baseline keyword-defined as "know", and
>   all of the considerable usage of "djuno" has been in such a
>   way that it could be faithfully translated by "know".
>
>3. "Knowing", unlike the official place-structure of "djuno", has
>   no "epistemology" argument. [As John has pointed out, this is
>   not actually an epistemology argument but a metaphysics argument.]
  That depends on your definition of "metaphysics" - as I reported,
epistemology is the subcategory of metaphysics dealingw ith how we know
what we know.

>4. There seems to be a general sense that (2) and (3) are
>   incompatible.
>
>I would take issue with (4). (2) and (3) are compatible: "djuno"
>asserts that x1 beliefs x2 to be true about x3 within metaphysics
>x4, and it presupposes that x2 is true.
But since truth is not an absolute (at least not in Lojban - unless you mean fat
fatci rather than jetnu), this still seems wrong.  I may not have access to
le djuno's metaphysics/episte,ology, and my own metaphysics/epostemology may
not generate the same truths that le djuno's does.

I agree with you that Jorge is more or less correct with reagrd to how djuno
has been and will be used in practice - pretty much like English "know".
But that is because for the most part, the things that we have wanted to say
have been translations from English, and/or have been formulated in English
before expressing in Lojban.  Furthermore there are certain people that are
comfortable dealing with multiple ways of knowing, and it is those people
who will more likely use Lojban djuno differently than English know.  But
scientists and computer people, who dominate the Lojban community right now
are among the most limiting people I knwo as to what is a knowledge-generating
epistemology.  So present usage is not a very good guide for the long term.

lojbab
----
lojbab                                                lojbab@access.digex.net
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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