Re: Summary so far on DJUNO

["Jorge J. Llambías" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>]

>> They obviously
>>will disagree that they are self evident truths. What's the problem?
>
>Then they obviosuly would argue with translating the Declaration using
>"fatci".

Why? If they don't agree with the English version, why would they want
to make a translation into a version they agree with?

>If we want a CORRECT translation of teh Declaration, then using
>fatci will mislead someone from a different cultural basis.  They would
insist
>that these "truths" are only suibjectively true.

What do you mean by a CORRECT translation? A translation into
a statement that everyone accepts as true, or a translation into a statement
that makes the same claim as the English version? The former would
be a rewriting, not a translation.

>Now using Lojban djuno as I have argued it, we can still use "mi djuno"
>for "we hold" and do not need to use "fatci".  But we also don't have to
seem
>relativistic by using "jinvi" because the founders who "held" those truths
>did indeed presuppose them, and jinvi is too weak a claim.

Of course the founders could use "mi djuno". They are presupposing
those truths, as you say, so what's the problem?

>Lojban is intended to be a language usable for communication between
> people whodo not necessarily share the same world view (i.e. intercultural
>communication) though of course there needs ot be some commonalties.

If two people don't agree on what things count as blanu, then they will
not agree on the truth value of {ta blanu}. Same for {fatci} or any other
word.

 >>No matter how convinced
>>the USAn is, if  they tell me:  "I know that it is self evident that all
men
>>are created equal", then I will disagree and say that to me it is not self
>>evident.
>
>Then don't use fatci, and be wary to remember the x2 of jetnu and
>the x4 of djuno.

But I don't agree with the English version. So I have to translate it into
a Lojban version that I disagree with. Otherwise I would be changing
what it says, wouldn't I?

co'o mi'e xorxes