Re: Summary so far on DJUNO

["Jorge J. Llambías" <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>]

Goran:
>3. I like the idea of bridi expressing a relationship between its sumti.
>I believe the less I deviate from that, the better.

Right, but neither definition of djuno makes you deviate from that.

> I might not be
>right. I also like the that in lojban one can control what he says, and
>how much he says. You don't want to make number explicit? OK, number is
>optional. You don't want to decide when has something happened, if it
>even has yet? No problem, tense is optional, too. Also, if I want to
>include my judgement about the truth in other people's convictions, I
>can always tanru it with mibyseltu'i or jetnu (with implied "tu'a mi" in
>x3) or whatever.

Nobody forces you to use "knows" in English either if you mean
"is convinced".  Whether the choice is between {djuno} and {birtyjinvi},
or between {djuno} and {jetydjuno}, you always have the choice.

>Again, since this is a constructed language, we can fix
>whatever we like as meaning of specific words

Undoubtedly. But why fix one meaning and use words that don't
correspond to that meaning to explain it. Let's say that in the case
of the English keywords it was simply a mistake, and due to the
baseline there's nothing we can do about it. Now, how do I translate
the definition of {djuno} into a Spanish version of the gi'uste? Do
I use "saber" or "estar convencido"? Until recently I would have used
"saber" without thinking twice, but now it seems that that is wrong,
because "saber" would not correspond at all to {djuno}, and since
there is no baseline in Spanish, I am free to choose a better
keyword.

>(did you read "The Meaning
>of Liff"?), but (mainly) for the reasons stated above I like and's
>definition, the one I believe lojbab. basically agrees with, even if it
>does significantly differ from English usage (as well as that of any
>other natural language I know).

I suppose you refer to "x4 convinces x1 that x2 is true about x3".
That's a perfectly acceptable gismu definition, but it has little
to do with know/savoir/saber/etc. We can't correct the English keyword,
but then let's stop associating djuno with words that mean "know"
in other languages.

co'o mi'e xorxes