Re: how to say

[Colin Fine <C.J.Fine@BRADFORD.AC.UK>]

Rick Morneau says:
==================================
It seems to me that, in the sentence "I look through the window", the
agent "I" is really using the window as an instrument. Consider a
similar sentence:

     I looked at the crowd through/with/using a telescope.

Obviously, "with" must be used in its instrumental sense, rather than
in its other English senses (accompaniment, manner, etc). Thus, I
think the proper way to translate the original sentence would be as
if you were trying to say:

     I look using the window.
              or
     I look with the window.

The French equivalent is instructive:

     Je regarde par la  fenetre.
     I  look    by  the window
====================================

That would be an obvious way of handling it, and did indeed occur to me (mi
catlu sepi'o le canko); but I do not think that is the meaning of the phrase.

'Looking through a window' is NOT the same as 'looking through a telescope'.
Consider 'looking through a momentary gap between passers-by'.

=====================================
 However, I long ago gave up trying to come up with EXACT translations
between different languages. If you develop a conlang that can
precisely capture all the subtleties of your native language, then
all you'll succeed in doing is to create a clone of your native
language. The best you can hope for is to make your conlang as
flexible as possible so that it can capture as many subtleties as
possible.
=====================================

Indeed. But what makes the activity of Lojban so interesting to me is the way
it encourages me to think hard about what I mean. If it were simply a matter
of 'EXACT translations' between different languages, then I would expect
'look through a telescope' and 'look through a window' to be translated
identically. However, I don't do that - I look behind the English phrase and
try to extract a more fundamental meaning that I can map onto the resources
of Lojban.

Incidentally, I don't agree that the French example is instructive. French
'par' happens to cover both instrument and route/channel, but so what?

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There's a monkey on my shoulder   | Colin Fine
        and it's telling me lies      |  Dept of Computing
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