Re: TECH: more thoughts on zi'o

[Art Protin <protin@USL.COM>]

Richard Kennaway <jrk@SYS.UEA.AC.UK> comments:

> This is prima facie logically problematic.  P(a,b,c,d,zi'o) cannot
> be taken to mean "there is no e such that P(a,b,c,d,e)", since this
> statement does not express the positive relationship that people are
> trying to get when zi'o-ing the destination place of klama.  If a
> relation like that which "klama" names is taken to be an atomic
> concept, that either holds between a tuple of things -- including
> a destination -- or does not, then zi'o makes no sense.

While I think I agree with this as a whole, the only examples that
come to mind are those where I did not accept the claim that the
the place did not have a possible value.  Unknowable values are
not the same as non-existant values.  All travel has a destination,
regardless of anybody's inability to express it.  The same is true
of all the other places of klama.  Detailing of any klama becomes
intractable much faster than it becomes complete.  Thus, an inherent
nature of useful language are its facilities to omit distracting
details.

I accept "P(a,b,c,d,zi'o)" as "there is no e such that P(a,b,c,d,e)"
provided that zi'o is always required to be stated, never implied.
The construct "P(a,b,c,d,...)" says nothing about the existance or
relevance of e unless the the relation P is such that e is guarenteed
to exist, as is the case with klama.  Even when e is guarenteed to
exist, when e is unspecified nothing more is implied about it.
The construct "not P(a,b,c,d,...)" says to me that there exists
a value of e such that "not P(a,b,c,d,e)" is true.  This is a much
weaker claim than there is no e such that "P(a,b,c,d,e)" is true.
The stronger claim is represented as "P(a,b,c,d,zi'o)" which is
where this paragraph began.

(Tell me again John why the loglan predicate "bluer-than" is
impossible to use with negation.)


    thank you all,
    Arthur Protin


Arthur Protin <protin@usl.com>
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: The views expressed are strictly those of the author and
are in no way indictative of his employer, customers, or this installation.