noha

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

I don't think I posted the following in my last blort of responses,
though I intended to.

I won't pretend to understand the bulk of the afterthought scope
proposal, especially because And seemed so confused about which cmavo go
with which selma'o/structures.  I can deal with one question though.

And:
>The current logic of {nei} and {noa} seems rather odd to me - it seems
>to give an infinite regression of bridis that contain copies of
>themselves.  I've probably misunderstood {nei} and {noa}, but if I
>haven't maybe they could be reassigned.  [I guess they are intended to
>be used with gadri, e.g.  {lo te noa}, but I don't see how that avoids
>infinite regression.]

nei and no'a are both intended to handle reflexives that cannot be
handled with the vo'a series.  If you are in a 1st level subordinate
bridi you can use vo'a to refer reflexively to main level bridi, le go'i
etc. to refer to sumti in previous bridi, and le nei, le se nei etc. to
reflex subordinate sumti.

e.g.
la djef. jinvi ledu'u
         la djan. cu klama le zarci le zdani fu le karce po le nei
Jeff opines that John goes to the store from the house in his (John's) car.

la djef. jinvi ledu'u
         la djan. cu klama le zarci le zdani fu le karce po vo'a
Jeff opines that John goes to the store from the house in his (Jeff's) car.

Clearly ri/ra/ru could get pretty confusing in this kkind of nested
structure.

In the above example "le no'a" would be equivalent to vo'a.  The next
outer bridi happens to be the outermost.

We needed to be prepared for more than two levels of nested
subordination, since it happens (and not all that rarely) in Lojban.
When you have more than two levels, then no'a allows specific reflexive
reference to intermediate bridi levels.

la djef. jinvi ledu'u
         la djan. cu klama le zarci le zdani fu le karce
         poi le no'a cu tervecnu
Jeff opines that John goes to the store from the house in the car he (John)
         bought.

The degree of usefulness of these words depends on how often people try
to write complex structured sentences.  The whole setup was created
after Michael Helsem used some complex sentences in his letters to me in
which the reflexive references were indeterminable.

lojbab