Re: brain fart metaphor

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

>Metaphor belongs to the extralinguistic domain of pragmatics. The
>grammar can (by definition) specify only what is intralinguistic.
>
>> My position, though, is that tanru are already metaphors, and don't,
>> therefore, require {pe'a} markers.
>Nothing requires {pea} markers.

Whaddaya mean "nothing"?

The place structure of a "broda brode" tanru is that of brode, with all the
places of broda implied using be/bei.  If you wish any place structure OTHER
than this, you need pe'a (you may be able to use zi'o for some simple place
deletions, of course, though I might still mark it with pe'a).

>> The particular point at issue is whether the places of {broda brode},
>> being the same as {brode}, may be filled by metaphorical objects.  Does
>> a {besna kafke} require a {te kafke}, or may it merely have a {pe'a te
>> kafke}?  Don (and John Cowan, it seems) think not.  (I'm actually
>> undecided, not really being competent to decide, but am arguing in
>> favor of it as advocatus diabolus.)
>
>I'm not sure.

If you use a "pe'a te kafke" then you should have a "pe'a" either on the
kafke, or on a marker for the x3 place (more wordy, though).

>> Meanwhile, can anyone come up with a selbri for "metaphor"?  I'd like
>> to move some of this discussion *back* to lojban, but it's tough when
>> I can't say "Tanru are metaphors" for lack of the darn word.
>
>Some ghastly attempts must exist in the archives, for Jorge & I both
>coined uncompelling lujvo for "metaphor".

tanru are a specific TYPE of metaphor - a "binary metaphor" having a specific
meaning.  If you want a more generic word for metaphor, you need to define
the word first.  Is it any figurative expression?  Is it an expression that
suggests connotations?  Is it a cultural or literary reference?  All of these
can be definitions of metaphor in English, but which do you want to express
in Lojban?  There will uindoubtedly be several words in Lojban for the several
meanings, and if you want a loose blanket word, you will be stuck with a
mediocre word for it - like maybe "meaning-suggest-ke-word-group"

lojbab