Re: ka/ni kama

["Lee Daniel Crocker (none)" <lcrocker@MERCURY.COLOSSUS.NET>]

>>{le ni broda} is not a dimensionless quantity like {li pa}
>>(though it might be in certain contexts), it is a measurement
>>in units of broda-ness.
>
> If you're right about this, then where would you use it? I can't find
> any gismu that has a place for a dimensioned quantity.

Several have places marked [quanitity] that seem like they would
only work with dimensioned ones--in fact {le klani} itself is either
t (with {se klani] being a number) or else (as seems more natural)
it is a particular instance of a quantity, in which case {se klani}
must be a dimensioned quantity.  Are not "the 5 kilos of rice I
have in mind" and "the 10 meters of rope I have in mind" both {klani}?

What about {te merli}?

> And then you must disagree with things like:
>         le ni la djan cu ricfu cu du li piso'i
>         The extent to which John is rich is a lot.

I wouldn't use {du} as they are not the same identity, but {dunli}
seems OK.  If {li piso'i} or {li rau} cannot be dimensioned, then
they are not very useful as quantifiers.  Perhaps it is "raising" in
a sense to treat numbers as both "pure" and as quantities with
elided dimensions, but I don't see how a useful language can do it
any other way, especially since lojban makes no other effort to
clarify dimensioned quantities.

> Your definition would be a third possibility for {ni}, but I don't see
> where you would use it. (Liking 1.4 womanlyness units seems
> strange to me. You'd not be saying that you like women who
> measure that, but rather that you like the units themselves.)

I may /not/ like all women with that quantity.  It may be that {le ni
la meris. ninmu cu dunli le ni la djein. ninmu}, which I like, but
otherwise Jane might be a jerk.  I like the extent to which she is a
woman, but I may dislike that {ka} she is a lesbian.

> First, what do you need to express "3 meters" as a sumti for?

It is a concept I can hold in my mind; if I cannot express it, then
why am I wasting my time with this language?  How do you answer {ma junta}?
The abstract properties like "weight" and "luminosity" and "length"
must be expressible without reference to specific heavy, bright, or long
things, because the mind can think of them that way.

--
Lee Daniel Crocker <lee@piclab.com> <http://www.piclab.com/lcrocker.html>
"All inventions or works of authorship original to me, herein and past,
are placed irrevocably in the public domain, and may be used or modified
for any purpose, without permission, attribution, or notification."--LDC