Re: Ironic Use of Attitudinals

[Rick Nylander <rnylander@DTSI.COM>]

>>Attitudinals constitute the meta-linguistic features that are used in
>>conversation such as smiles.
>
>No, they are not _the_ meta-linguistic features, they are just _some_
>meta-linguistic features. Their existence does not stop you using
_other_
>meta-linguistic features not specified by lojban (such as smiling) if
you
>feel they won't be misunderstood.

To quote from the refgram, chapter 13, section 1:
        "In Lojban, everything that can be spoken can also be written."

This says that attitudinals are intended to be substitutes for what you
would normally say using changes in voice pitch, smiles, etc.

In section 16 of  chapter 13:
        "The exact ramifications of the indicator system in actual usage
are unknown. There has never been anything like it in natural language
before."

This is as good a statement as you are going to get that attitudinals
are not intended to be the equivalent of anything in english or any
other language.  Therefore any comparisons to english "ha ha" are
inappropriate.

>In fact, I don't believe the refgram would have the authority to forbid
>such use, any more than it would have the authority to declare that one
>should never tell jokes in lojban, or that one should never offend
people
>in lojban.

Heresy!  Heresy!  Better be careful, or the language police might
getcha' ;-)
Obviously nothing can forbid you using (or abusing) any language in any
way that you choose.  You can speak all english backward if it makes you
happy.  But no one will understand what you're saying if you do.

I can certainly see attitudinals as contributing to a joke.  Example: A
man talks about how his brand new Cadillac rolled off a cliff yesterday
and was crushed to a smoldering heap of metal, yet every attitudinal he
uses indicates a combination of great joy and relief.  Upon being asked
about this, the man explains that his mother-in-law was driving it.
(ta-dum)

I have read that someone on this list (I think it's lojbab) actually
speaks lojban in a monotone so as to avoid injecting cultural dependent
aspects (e.g. attitudinals).  I assume this is true. (lojbab - 'fess-up.
Do you confirm or deny?)

Rik.