Re: What is Loglan/Lojban

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

>As fir what is
>> language - I think it is a matter of definition.  I choose to include
>> all means of expression which CAN be consciously controlled at least in
>> part.  Lojban as a language design can prescribe for that entire range
>> of expression.  Whether people will or will not follow that prescription
>> is of course an individual decision.
>
>This definition of the Loglan project is news to me. If it is
>LLG policy, there ought to be a far more explicit articulation
>of it. I doubt, for example, that any linguist would realize,
>from the available documentation, that the scope of the project
>was as broad as this.

I suspect you read more into this than I intend.  Lojban CAN prescribe some
pragmatics, because we HAVE done so, both in the refgrammar and in other less
solid prescriptive documents (e.g. the draft textbook).  Specifically, in the
areas of attitudinal use, in the stated obligation on the speaker to be clear,
and in several aspects of the tense system, I think we have made prescriptive
comments about pragmatics.  In the case of the attitudinals, we have extended
the language into traditionally extralinguistic arenas.  In the case of the
metalinguistic sentences, we have grammaticalized that which has traditionally
been conveyed by pragmatics (i.e. that a statement is indeed metalinguistic).
sumti-raising and its avoidance is another area where Lojban prescription
counters natlang norms.

The scope of the project is such as to make the core of the project "work",
and have integrity for the designed purposes.  If people nibble away at the
edges based on pragmatics, then the core loses much of its integrity, since
you can avoid everything in the language without difficulty.  Some have
said that we did this too far, already - surely you and Jorge have seemed to
me to complain that too much of the language excepts the speaker from needing
to be rigorous with things like scope.  I myself have worried about that one,
but decided that Lojban cannot at this point force logical thinking on people,
only enable it, since most potential Lojban speakers don't have the training
to follow a set of rigid rules on logical usage.

lojbab
----
lojbab                                                lojbab@access.digex.net
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA                        703-385-0273
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: ftp.access.digex.net /pub/access/lojbab
    or see Lojban WWW Server: href="http://xiron.pc.helsinki.fi/lojban/";
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