Re: Indirect questions

[JORGE JOAQUIN LLAMBIAS <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>]

And:

>An utterance, or text-token, exists in space-time. A sentence,
>or text-type does not; it is abstract.

All right, that makes sense.

>On reflection, I now think that it makes more sense for Zo,
>lu, zoi, etc. to denote text-types. This is because zo/lu/zoi
>are not selbri valsi. Since there may be many tokens of a
>given text-type, reference to a text-token should be by means
>of a selbri (e.g. "le nu cusku zo coi" - 'an utterance of the
>text-type _coi_').

Sounds reasonable. Then {le nu cusku re zo coi} would not
be meaningful. I think that if zo is a text-type, that should
really be {le nu reroi cusku zo coi} or {lei re nu cusku zo coi}.
The first one (re zo coi) would be wrong, right?

 >  le nu mi cusku lu go'i li'u cu danfu le nu cusku lu xu do badri
>     li'u
>  My saying "I am" is an answer to someone's saying "Are you sad?".

Right. Or for short:

        tu'a lu go'i li'u cu danfu tu'a lu xu do badri li'u

 >> >> {ko cusku le sedu'u xukau do badri} = "Say whether you're sad".
 >> if {da de du'u xukau do badri}, then {da} is a proposition and {de} is
>> a text-type corresponding to that proposition.
>
>But I'd have thought that the text-type corresponding to
>the propositionoid "xu kau do badri" is {xu kau do badri}.

No! The text type {lu xu kau do badri} is independent of context.
The propositionoid {du'u xu kau do badri} is context dependent.

It seems to me that the only way you can associate a text-type
with a proposition is through an utterance, and different
utterances will link a given text-type with different propositions,
as well as different utterances will link a given proposition
with diffrent text-types.

For example, the text type {lu mi badri} is linked with a different
propositions when you say it than when I say it. If I say it, it
is linked with the proposition {le du'u mi badri}, and if you say it,
with {le du'u do badri}.

The proposition {le du'u mi badri} is linked with different text-types,
depending on who wants to express it. I would have to use
the type {lu mi badri}, you would have to choose between the
types {lu do badri} or {lu la xorxes badri}, depending on who
you're talking to.

So du'u is not a one-to-one relationship.

>I agree that {da} is a proposition and {de} is a text-type
>corresponding to that proposition, but what proposition and
>text-type do you think da & de are?

[We were talking about {ko cusku le sedu'u xukau do badri}.]

The propositionoid is "whether you're sad". The text-type I don't
know, since there wasn't yet any utterance to link the prepositionoid
with a text-type. You'll have to choose an appropriate text-type and
say it in order to satisfy my ko-request. For example, it could be:

le du'u xukau do badri cu du'u xukau do badri kei lu mi badri li'u
do'e le nu do cusku lu mi badri li'u

The propositionoid whether you're sad is the prepositionoid
whether you're sad linked with the text-type {mi badri} by your
uttering the text type {mi badri}.

 >> How would you say "Say whether you're sad"?
>
>  Ko ???? le du`u xu kau do badri
>
>-- I can't remember the appropriate word for "say".
>Possibly something like "selvlagau" would do, but there
>must be gismu for it.

No, {cusku} should be the gismu for it, but for some reason it
got tangled with text-types rather than with propositions, so that
you have to use {sedu'u} which brings a text-type associated
with the proposition. All very complicated. There is also {bacru}
for text-types. I don't know about {selvlagau}, maybe {seljufrygau}.

>> Would that work as an explication of the direct question?
>Yes. Direct questions would reduce to a subcase of indirect
>questions.

Right. So now how do we explicate indirect questions? Obviously
my explication using {le danfu be la'e lu xu ...} would be going in
circles.

I would say that {mi djuno le du'u xukau do badri} means,
as a first approximation, {mi djuno le du'u do ja'a badri ija
mi jduno le du'u do na badri}. (It's only a first approximation
because I'm ignoring fuzzy answers. To include them I would
need an infinite number of alternations.) Any buyers?

I forgot what was your explication using truth values.

co'o mi'e xorxes