Re: Indirect questions

[JORGE JOAQUIN LLAMBIAS <jorge@INTERMEDIA.COM.AR>]

And:
 >> >> >> {ko cusku le sedu'u xukau do badri} = "Say whether you're
>> >> >> sad".
>It means "ko cusku the text type that expresses the proposition(oid)
>(that is expressed in Lojban by) {xu kau do badri}". So,
>noting your corrections, but basically sticking to my original
>contention, I think {ko cusku le sedu'u xukau do badri} means
>not "Say whether you're sad" but "ko cusku lu xu kau mi badri li`u".

Why do you accept that you have to change {do} to {mi}, but
not that you have to change {xukau} to either {ja'a} or {na}?
They are both changes that have to be made in going from
proposition to text-type through the pertinent context.

>Ah... I think the light is dawning. I reckon I sort of grasp
>your point now. Hmm. If {mi djuno le du`u xu kau ko`a badri}
>means "for every x, a jetlai of le du`u ko`a badri, I know
>that x is jetlai of le du`u ko`a badri". The crucial thing
>is that this only makes sense when {Q kau} occurs within a
>proposition that itself is an argument of an epistemic
>predicate. I no think {ko cusku le sedu'u xukau do badri}
>just doesn't make sense at all.

Why not? For every x a se jetlai (not a jetlai) of le du'u ko'a badri,
express that x is a sejetlai of le du'u ko'a badri. Obviously you
don't need to make an utterance for every x in order to express
it for all of them.

Or, in my more pedestrian version: ko cusku lu mi ja'a badri li'u
a lu mi na badri li'u

 >> >-- I can't remember the appropriate word for "say".
>> >Possibly something like "selvlagau" would do, but there
>> >must be gismu for it.
>> No, {cusku} should be the gismu for it, but for some reason it
>> got tangled with text-types rather than with propositions, so that
>> you have to use {sedu'u} which brings a text-type associated
>> with the proposition.
>
>and which seems not to work, moreover.

I'm not convinced yet.

>> All very complicated. There is also {bacru}
>> for text-types.
>
>I thought {bacru} meant to make a vocal sound. A text-type is
>not a vocal sound.

Well, bacru has always been used as in: {mi bacru zo a},
and I thought we said {zo a} was a text-type. But I'm not sure
what's the point of  separating what I think you mean by
text-type and the one and only sound-pattern associated
with it. Of course you can utter zo a without even being aware
that it is a Lojban text-type. Is that what you object to?

>> I don't know about {selvlagau}, maybe {seljufrygau}.
>
>Both are suitable. Curious that one must use a lujvo for
>so common a concept as "say".

But {selvlagau} would only work for single words.
For example {ko selvlagau le du'u mi klama le zarci}
means "Say in a word that I go to the market". (Or in
many words if you like, but each of them must mean
that I go to the market.)

 co'o mi'e xorxes