on du'u (delayed rtesponse)

[Logical Language Group <lojbab@ACCESS.DIGEX.NET>]

On the question of the semantic difference between du'u and nu.  Other
than the existence of x2 on du'u, I think there is a difference in how
tenses relate to the semantics.

Specifically, I do not think that one can meaningfully attach many tense
constructs to a du'u predicate.  What would it mean to say

        pu du'u broda

especially when you remember the sumti structure:

        da pu du'u broda kei de

I am pretty sure that this does not mean

        da du'u pu broda kei de

The latter is discussing the tense aspects of the relationship itself,
whereas the former two would be attaching a tense to the abstracting of
or talking about the relationship (and its association to a string of
text).  If there formerly existed a possible relationship expressed by a
certain string then it seems likely that there still is now.  Indeed
every possible Lojban predication is a ca du'u.

We can have a du'u broda that is eternally false/unrealized/impossible
in a/all possible worlds and still talk about it merely by being able to
express it.  The external tense seems to apply to the consideration of
the predication and not to the event/occurence thatthe predication
stands for.


On the other hand, you can meaningfully attach tenses, contours etc to
nu abstractions

        pu nu broda
        pu'o nu broda

which continue to work when preceded by the explicit x1

        da pu nu broda
        da pu'o nu broda

and these have a definite semantic relationship, though I am not sure it
is one of identity, to

        da nu pu broda
        da nu pu'o broda

We would not use "ca" as a tense on nu unless the event is actually
taking place now.

Does this help either to define nu or to separate nu from du'u?

----
lojbab                                                lojbab@access.digex.net
Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc.
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