Re: 'your will' as sumti

[Ashley Yakeley <AshleyB@HALCYON.COM>]

At 1997-11-06 08:27, Rick Nylander wrote:

>> If "desire" is the right translation for "will" (I think the
>> original poster's "motivated act" is better), then the sentence
>> would be {ko gasnu le se djica be do}.
>
>Hmm, I think you're right about that part.  {ko gasnu le do djica} would
>probably translate to "do your desiring" or "go ahead and desire."  So
>the better phrase would be {ko gasnu le se djica be do}.

I was about to say you can only do an action, not an event, but in =
fact x2 of gasnu accepts events. So this would mean 'cause those =
events you desire to happen'. I'm not sure this is the same thing, =
however...

>I disagree about {mukti}, however, unless you think that slaves working
>in a field are doing their own wills, simply because they are motivated
>by a whip.

There's a problem here, because there's no clear distinction between =
the two kinds of motivation: the slaves in your example are arguably =
doing want they want to do given the situation that they're in. In =
this sense, of course, everyone does what they want to all the time.

The division in kinds of motivation into 'our own' and 'imposed' is =
our own invention. Consider:

1. I want a cookie.

2. We had to eat the other passengers because we were starving.

Surely the same motivation? But the latter suggests imposition.

BUT, inasmuch as we have this division, I concede that we might want =
words for them and {mukti} only covers both cases rather than just =
the first.

>  Hmm, unless you specify that YOU are the one motivating
>yourself.  This means that you must fill in the x1 place with {do}: {se
>mukti do do} (I'm weak on constructing sumti, so I know that needs work
>to be useable).

That won't help, because it doesn't really make much sense. =
Considering almost any motivation, what goes in the x1 place is not =
the x3 agent but some desire or something that represents that =
desire. It would only be appropriate if the x3 agent is making some =
kind of deliberate effort or something.

So what's the best translation of 'fais ce que voudras'? Gargantua is =
admonishing his Th=E9l=E8mites to live free from 'vile constraint and =
subjection', so perhaps {mukti} isn't quite appropriate.

--
Ashley Yakeley, Seattle WA
http://www.halcyon.com/ashleyb/