Re: nu & fasnu

[And Rosta <a.rosta@UCLAN.AC.UK>]

Lojbab:
> >As Jorge said, an event must exist in space-time -- it must occur
> >-- just as dogs, people, flowers, kisses do.
>
> Perhaps the word "event" misleads then.  A "nu" event is a relationship
> and the x1 of nu broda is  thus pretty much the same as the x1 of du'u
> broda.

Surely there is a significant difference? I know I claim that
many use nu when du`u would be more appropriate, but I'd not
thought the two to amount to much the same thing.

> I am not sure what "nu broda" as the selbri claims - perhaps it does
> claim occurance in order to make sense , but in its normal use as part of
> a description it is subject to question whether it occurs.

One thing we're debating is whether its normal use is faulty.

> >If I understood John correctly, "nu" does claim occurrence (by
> >definition: it means "is an occurrer"), but not necessarily in
> >this world, unless preceded by ca`a.
>
> ca'a says that it is happening right now.  I see no relevance in ca'a to
> the question of occurance, except that a ca'a nu broda does of course occur.
> But ANY Lojban selbri or description has a possible "tense" of potentially
> can but has not, and hence I see no way to make nu default to a firm claim
> of actual occurance merely by mention.  Furthermore, I have no qualms with
> saying lenu broda na fasnu, which would be self-contradictory if nu broda
> implicitly claimed fasnu/occurence.

Sorry: I probably didn't mean {ca`a}. I still haven't brought my
Lojban materials into work with me, and I'm finding that problems
at one end or the other are constantly thwarting my attempts to
access xiron. I'm having to rely on my crap memory.
What I mean is the counterpart of {ka`e} that means "can and has",
which I take to mean "in the locally-real world is".

--And